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March 19, 2021

Ecom for New Moms: The future of parenting at the intersection of technology and digital commerce

This week, Ingrid joins Phillip & Brian to talk about her impressive baby registry, different mommy personas, and how monoculture is affecting their kids

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This week, Ingrid joins Phillip & Brain to talk about her impressive baby registry, different mommy personas, and how monoculture is affecting their kids.

Instacart for CMOs and Podcasts

  • Ingrid helped contribute to Kiri’s new book: “The power that Instacart unlocks has never really been in the hands of retailers or brands. In the year 2020, it has gotten significantly more advanced in the ways we’re able to actually market to a new consumer.” - Ingrid 
  • “I think to stand out in podcasting is the same challenge to stand out in the brand world… it’s all suffering from the same challenge, which is there’s too much of it.” - Phillip Jackson
  • “Discoverability is so hard that having this one kitschy thing is a way to stand out. I don’t know if it’s the way to stand out forever and be durable, but it certainly grabs people’s attention.” - Phillip Jackson

Pandemic Pregnancy and the Enthusiast Economy 

  • Ingrid is pregnant and has dug into research and registries. 
  • “[Being pregnant] is sort of the ultimate enthusiast economy because once you have your baby, there’s no going back. You become an enthusiast.” - Brian
  • Ingrid goes into different types of moms: the sustainable minimalist eco mom, the boujee mom, and the Target mom - all of which have marketing geared towards them.
  • Ingrid explains her own choice anxiety, giving the differences between her detailed registry versus a friend’s simplified, non-brand specific registry. 
  • Monoculture has died. In reference to children: “The only things that are relevant are the things that are influencing them at this exact moment.” - Phillip Jackson


Have any questions or comments about the show? Let us know on, or reach out to us on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, or LinkedIn. We love hearing from our listeners!

Phillip: [00:01:12] Hello, welcome to Future Commerce. That was a really weird way to phrase it. Welcome to Future Commerce, the podcast about the next generation of commerce. Forget, Brian, who you hear laughing. We have Ingrid Cordy back with us.

Brian: [00:01:28] Yes.

Ingrid: [00:01:29] Wohoo. Hey guys.

Phillip: [00:01:29] Hey. Oh, gosh. It's been too long. It's almost been a year. I don't know why.

Brian: [00:01:33] No it hasn't.

Phillip: [00:01:33] It has.

Brian: [00:01:34] No. It was like the fall.

Ingrid: [00:01:37] It was just me and Brian.

Brian: [00:01:40] Oh that's right. Ha.

Phillip: [00:01:42] You can tell I don't keep up on when I'm not on the show at all. I only listen to shows that I'm on. Actually it's funny. I have not listened to the Ben Schott episode yet, so that's actually true.

Brian: [00:01:56] Boo. It's so good.

Phillip: [00:01:56] I've heard it's very, very good.

Brian: [00:01:58] It's so good. You've got to listen to it. Ben's amazing. I love Ben.

Phillip: [00:02:00] But before you go and listen to Ben Schott, listen to Ingrid. Ingrid, you have a little bit of personal news.

Ingrid: [00:02:06] I do. I am cooking up a little human. I'm eight months pregnant.

Phillip: [00:02:13] Oh, you're pregnant. I was like, you're cooking up a human? But that's weird. Congratulations to you. I'm so proud to know you. And in this journey, in this moment. And I'm going to spend the entirety of the show just picking your brain of what it's like to be pregnant during a pandemic.

Ingrid: [00:02:30] Sure. Yeah.

Phillip: [00:02:32] And you had a little bit of a job shift since the last time I talked to you on the show. Where are you at these days?

Ingrid: [00:02:41] Yeah. So I'm over at Nuun Hydration, based in Seattle. I actually moved to Seattle.

Brian: [00:02:48] Yeah!

Ingrid: [00:02:50] Dude. Washington State. Number one state to live in.

Brian: [00:02:54] Yes. I love it.

Phillip: [00:02:57] I can't. I can't with the two of you right now.

Ingrid: [00:02:59] We now have two of the three current podcasters in Seattle or Washington, and we're just killing the game over here.

Phillip: [00:03:13] It's crazy. Well, we'll get into some stuff here today.

Brian: [00:03:19] Whoa, wait, wait, wait, wait. Ingrid also has some other news as well. She was recently featured in a book.

Ingrid: [00:03:28] Oh, that's right. Yeah. I mean, that's a big one. I got to have a really great conversation with the unbelievably brilliant, as you know, Kiri Masters.

Phillip: [00:03:39] Oh!

Ingrid: [00:03:40] Yeah. Then so I'm in her latest drop, which is Instacart for CMOs. Check it out on

Phillip: [00:03:49] We're recording this on the day of the launch of that book, and I've bought five copies so far. So pro tip... This is also in the midst of what I'm going to call Groceryshopgeddon where it's like the worst... We went from shoptalk being the best digital event I'd ever attended to, Groceryshop being the worst digital event that I've ever attended.

Brian: [00:04:13] Awww.

Phillip: [00:04:14] And if you all are listening, I'm very sorry to say this. If I give you praise, I also have to rib you a little bit. Every one of my meetings have dropped on me.

Brian: [00:04:25] A lot of meetings dropped.

Phillip: [00:04:25] I don't understand it, but the ones that I have attended, I finish the call and then I send them a Kindle edition of Instacart for CMOs. I am so bullish on Instacart. I think it is a game changer for brands to get in there and actually conquest and be early stage to a marketplace that I think could be as big as Amazon in 10, 15 years. It's insane. Very, very bullish on there. So what did you talk about from your own perspective in the book? What were you quoted as saying?

Ingrid: [00:05:00] So I don't have the actual book in my hand. She mailed it to me. So there was a lot. It was like an hour conversation that probably got edited and things like that. But mostly, yeah, I feel very, very similar to your sentiment about how Instacart, the power that Instacart unlocks, that has really never been in the hands of retailers or brands. In the year 2020, it has gotten significantly more advanced in the ways that we're able to actually market to a new consumer. Search engine optimization. Sure. But then also banners and couponing and very specific geo targeting. It's just this wild world that we have to be able to respond to quickly and analyze. And it's so cool. Yeah, I'm a big Instacart fan. And I think I've read actually a lot of Kiri Masters' books previously, like Amazon for CMOs. And they're very, very pragmatic and practical and well structured. So you can always go back to it and reference them. So I think the whole suite of these, like X for CMO books are fantastic and I'm just so proud to get to be a part of this one.

Phillip: [00:06:26] Cool.

Ingrid: [00:06:27] Especially because it's about Instacart and because it's Kiri.

Phillip: [00:06:31] Well, mostly because you're in it. And that's the reason why I bought five of them. Actually, I didn't know you were in it until this exact moment. Yeah, Kiri is great. Actually, if you want to hear Kiri's POV on Instacart, I mean, well, buy the book because don't be a jerk. Go buy the book and support someone else in the community who is doing something really cool. But also we had Kiri on the show kind of explaining the four sided marketplace of Instacart and how it is probably the most fair of all the, to call it a delivery app is to take away the power of what it really is, but it's really driving online demand to offline behavior purchase behavior. But because demand aggregation is happening online, you're capturing a digital customer and that digital customer is becoming a physical customer for you. It's an incredible way to activate a new behavior for the consumer. So she talks about that in our...

Brian: [00:07:25] Episode 197.

Phillip: [00:07:26] Thank you.

Brian: [00:07:26] So that's probably two episodes ago. In fact, Ingrid, you are Episode 199.

Phillip: [00:07:33] Yeah.

Ingrid: [00:07:34] Oh, I like that.

Brian: [00:07:36] So we're about to embark on Episode 200.

Phillip: [00:07:38] Almost at the milestone.

Brian: [00:07:39] And I think we might do something a little special.

Phillip: [00:07:43] We'll try to do something special. I don't know what we're going to do. It'll to be something.

Brian: [00:07:47] Something.

Phillip: [00:07:48] You know, what we could do is just let's podcast for four and a half hours right here right now, and then we'll split this up into two episodes.

Brian: [00:07:54] Yes.

Phillip: [00:07:55] That's a thing. Now, I don't get that. Do you listen to podcasts, Ingrid?

Ingrid: [00:07:59] I do, yeah. What I will say is COVID has changed my podcast listening habits. Living in New York for my whole life and just being on the subway and commuting, that was like the time where I would just blaze through every single podcast that I'm subscribed to on a weekly basis and just be like hungry for more. And now I'm finding myself still listening to podcasts. I'll go for long walks or I'll listen to them while I'm doing chores around the house. But now I'm kind of like needing to catch up on all my favorite podcasts, rather than being voraciously looking for new ones.

Phillip: [00:08:39] Hmm. That's a thing that I feel like we have experienced from our podcast listening audience since the year ago quarantine's began, which is people still listen, but they fall behind in binge.

Brian: [00:08:57] Yeah.

Ingrid: [00:08:58] Yeah definitely.

Phillip: [00:08:58] So when you see, like a new episode drops and the bulk of the listens that happen are for prior episodes that were sort of adjacent. It's like people are catching up, which is so interesting, such an interesting behavior. I found a lot of new podcasts during the last 12 months, but that's just me.

Ingrid: [00:09:20] I mean, we're always needing some new podcasts. What are you listening to?

Phillip: [00:09:23] It's true. It's true. Let me say I'll pull something up. Oh, there's an interesting... I'm into like some weird podcast stuff now, you guys. So I don't do True Crime because, like, there's enough hurt in the world. I don't need that. There is a, if you're into film podcasts, there is a really interesting high concept show that I'm fascinated with called Screen Drafts. And it is a long form podcast, meaning they are at average three hours long, and at the most five hours and 30 minutes long is the longest one I've listened to. And it is like a game show where a bunch of film critics kind of come together and they create an ultimate draft around a theme of their favorite films. And they have rules and have vetoes and they have rollover vetoes that go to the next episode. It's like a game show. It is amazing. And I'm like, how do we do that on Future Commerce? We're like, let's draft the five worst brands of 2020.

Brian: [00:10:30] Actually that sounds kind of fun. I'm kind of in on that.

Phillip: [00:10:33] It's so much fun.

Brian: [00:10:34] Yeah. Just record the whole thing. I don't know. Who listens to that though? The five hours of retail drafting.

Phillip: [00:10:40] You guys, who listens to five hours of any podcast? But I listened to the ultimate Pixar draft where they did every single Pixar movie in order. There are apparently twenty three of them. And that's like six hours of debating which... Anyway. I highly recommend. It's a really interesting, very hit and miss I don't care about some themes.

Brian: [00:11:05] This is kind of fun. Like now I kind of want to go do that, like the DTC drafts of 2021.

Phillip: [00:11:09] Hey maybe we can work that into a maybe that's our Episode 200 idea.

Brian: [00:11:12] Episode 200.

Phillip: [00:11:13] Here's the gist. All right. I think to stand out in podcasting is the same challenge to stand out in the brand world right now. Let's bring this back. Discovery is impossible. It's impossible to find a good podcast. It's really like the best discovery mechanism is someone recommending something to you. And the second best is really just being prolifically, like sampling around and trying to figure out, like, what connects with you and what doesn't. But it's all suffering from the same challenge, which is there's too much of it. There's too many brands for you to find a good one. There's nobody really providing reviews at scale as to what's good and what's bad. Very few people are actually talking about the good stuff. They only talk about the bad stuff. And there's like new ones that launch every day. And you don't really, you can't tell one from the other. They're all the same problem. They're just, you know, realized in different ways.

Brian: [00:12:09] And yet there's so much out there. It's so hard to find the good stuff. And what we end up doing is consuming a bunch of junk.

Phillip: [00:12:17] You just you need a high concept. Like the high concept is the thing that I think cuts through the noise and having, like, something that's explainable, that's like, "Well, what is it?" "It's a film podcast." Nobody's going to listen to it. But having a concept around it and some rules kind of creates a really interesting dynamic to have a really interesting conversation.

Brian: [00:12:37] Boundaries, boundaries anyone?

Phillip: [00:12:38] Oh, gosh, Brian. Your boundaries thing, I think summoned 2020. So we shan't talk about boundaries ever again.

Brian: [00:12:46] {laughter} I know. Seriously. We will talk about them again, but they will summon another plague.

Ingrid: [00:12:52] I find it hard, and this goes again for podcast and for brands. I find that the brands and the podcasts and the music and the movies that are very hard for me to sum up in like a sentence or a tagline that isn't either easily, readily available for me to create in my own head or that they share have been really hard. The brilliant podcasts that I actually really, really love and has gotten me through a lot of 2020 is You're Wrong About.

Phillip: [00:13:25] Oh, I don't know that one.

Ingrid: [00:13:27] It's fantastic, and here's the elevator pitch and it actually is just written in the name of the podcast, and it's basically all the stories that we grew up on from the media that we just got so unbelievably wrong. And it's so good. It's like from Anna Nicole Smith and like a story about how she was portrayed to be this like gold digger. Bimbo, gold digger, and she just was this poor girl who grew up really, really poor and had a child really young and had a really rough upbringing and found this guy who was finally able to support her and really loved her and showed her all of this emotion that she had never received before. And it's a very, very interesting story that is layered. And then there's like they did a whole, I think, three episode one on Princess Diana and the royal family.

Phillip: [00:14:37] Wow.

Ingrid: [00:14:38] And it's just such a great social commentary. It's a great commentary on the way that media spins things. But anyway, going back to just the way that it's name is You're Wrong About, and I think that's so brilliant.

Phillip: [00:14:53] That is.

Brian: [00:14:55] There's a lot in a name.

Phillip: [00:14:57] We have this argument sometimes among ourselves, Brian and I, which is Future Commerce is kind of descriptive and it also isn't. Whereas Lee's show, Stairway to CEO, is pretty spot on, as you know exactly what to expect from a show named Stairway to CEO.

Ingrid: [00:15:18] Yeah.

Phillip: [00:15:18] You can guess and you would be right, you know?

Ingrid: [00:15:21] Yeah, I agree with that. But I actually think and maybe I'm biased, but I love the name Future Commerce because it encompasses so much. And so, like, Stairway to CEO, like very neatly falls within the world of Future Commerce.

Brian: [00:15:38] True.

Phillip: [00:15:39] Yeah and she spent so much of the last 10 months really building, you know, an incredible array of stories, like life stories, of people who are like direct to consumer founders and brand founders and operators. I think that that's something that's kind of missing in our space. And it's kind of like this hidden gem. People will discover it one day, and they'll figure it out anyway. [00:16:06] Discoverability is so hard that having this like one kitschy thing is a way to stand out. I don't know if it's the way to stand out forever and be durable, but it certainly grabs people's attention. [00:16:16]

Brian: [00:16:17] Bundling. Bundling can help with discoverability.

Phillip: [00:16:20] I think so.

Ingrid: [00:16:21] Oh I love bundles. My team, I torture them about bundles.

Phillip: [00:16:24] Yeah?

Ingrid: [00:16:25] There's never enough bundles on our DTC website.

Phillip: [00:16:28] There's not. There's so many opportunities. You to bundle things every which way.

Ingrid: [00:16:33] Totally. And I love it. I'm here for all of it.

Phillip: [00:16:38] I've got to ask, what is it like sort of not just being pregnant during the pandemic, but it's like it's a pregnancy that's like life changing because it's your first, right?

Ingrid: [00:16:50] Yeah.

Phillip: [00:16:50] Your first baby. And so you're in this sort of like you're buying all the stuff.

Ingrid: [00:16:57] {laughter} Yeah. Yeah. It's a trip because, you know, I'm the last of this crew to have children. And I probably had a different experience at it than all of you. And I'm also just one of those people who really digs in to all of the research. And I kind of get like a little bit competitive with my registry. Like I have to have the registry of all registries, and I'll send it to different other moms. And I have one mom friend who is fantastic and she's English and she's like... I am never going to be able to do the English accent. But she's like, "Your registry takes the biscuit." Because it's a really complicated and noisy and emotionally driven market.

Brian: [00:17:53] The baby category, I feel like, has developed a lot since I was in it.

Ingrid: [00:18:00] So maybe I would love to, like, build on what you guys had experience when you guys were going through this one hundred years ago to now.

Brian: [00:18:11] Was it one year for me or was it one hundred years ago? I don't even know.

Phillip: [00:18:16] I have to ask you the the biggest question, the thing that I think would have revolutionized or changed our early parenthood would have been to have like a SNOO, which I don't know if you guys know what this is.

Ingrid: [00:18:30] Of course I know. I know every single baby thing there is to know right now. I've consumed it all.

Phillip: [00:18:35] Brian, do you know what a SNOO is? Do not Google it.

Ingrid: [00:18:38] He's already... Too late. {laughter}

Brian: [00:18:41] I may have already Googled it.

Phillip: [00:18:43] Dang it, Brian.

Ingrid: [00:18:44] Fast.

Brian: [00:18:46] Yes, actually we had one of these.

Phillip: [00:18:48] No you did not. This did not exist.

Brian: [00:18:53] Not the brand. This brand.

Phillip: [00:18:55] Oh yeah. It was probably from Costco.

Brian: [00:18:59] Yeah it was. No, it wasn't.

Phillip: [00:19:00] The Costco brand was called the SNOOT. {laughter} A SNOO, for those who don't know is a brand name of a smart crib, which like can tell that the baby is restless or waking up and can rock it back to sleep.

Brian: [00:19:20] OK, I didn't have one of these. I wish I had one of these.

Phillip: [00:19:23] I was going to tell you, Brian, I don't think you have this because this is fairly new.

Brian: [00:19:26] I just had a bassinet. It that's all I had.

Ingrid: [00:19:29] Right. Normal. The SNOO is also a very, very unique price point of thirteen hundred dollars.

Phillip: [00:19:38] Yeah. You know what? When you're up at three o'clock in the morning for the twelfth day in a row, you'll pay any amount of money.

Ingrid: [00:19:44] Oh totally. That's what they're counting on.

Phillip: [00:19:46] Yeah. And you will. And I feel like that would have been a total game changer as a parent. Yeah. I don't know. That's the biggest thing that comes to mind is what.

Ingrid: [00:19:59] Side note. Side note on that. Going back to the registry wars that I will win at any cost. We actually registered for the Graco version of the SNOO, the rip off of this SNOO, which is called like Sense to Cry or Cry to Sense or something like that. And it's two hundred and fifty dollars. It's not nearly... So the SNOO is very sleek looking. It's like this mid century modern and chic bassinet. And quite frankly, if the baby would sleep in it for more than like three or four months. I do actually think it's a good investment, but they're in it for like not long enough to justify... Like, that's double the price of a regular crib. Like a nice regular crib.

Phillip: [00:20:47] Yeah.

Brian: [00:20:47] Right.

Phillip: [00:20:47] Sure.

Ingrid: [00:20:48] So, yeah, I don't know. I'm going to try the Sense to Snooze thing. And there's also a bunch... Here's the other fun part that I've been doing. The YouTube culture, like YouTuber culture of baby products and baby...

Phillip: [00:21:03] That did not exist. Go on, tell me more about that. That did not exist eleven years ago for me.

Ingrid: [00:21:08] Forget it. It is the most intoxicating thing. I have binged hours of YouTuber content on like baby must haves and things that they like regret buying, things that you should splurge on, things that you shouldn't splurge on. It is a wide and deep world of content that, quite frankly, has built my entire baby registry. I'm so commercially motivated by videos, and especially coming from my point of view where like I am usually the person that is like hiring the YouTubers or putting in the product placements and all of that, I am one thousand percent. Sign me up. I will buy everything that you told me to buy. I have no idea. And I am relying on you to just tell me and lead me through this very complicated world.

Brian: [00:22:06] Interesting that YouTube is like the format you go to for this as opposed to some of the other platforms out there. I feel like it's actually like the right use case for YouTube. Like right in line with like how YouTube is used.

Ingrid: [00:22:20] Yeah.

Phillip: [00:22:20] I go right to YouTube for search all the time now for a certain thing, and it's this weird thing that my brain does like I don't have a conscious thought of where should I go search for this? I search YouTube for certain things, and a search Google for certain things, and a search is Amazon for certain things. My defaults have changed.

Brian: [00:22:41] It's like when you want to learn about something for the first time, YouTube is like the fastest way, not like a topic in history. Wikipedia is still really easy. Obvious choice there. But like for anything that you need to actually do that you want to do, YouTube is that immediate go to. Or buy. Buy as well. Because so much review content is on YouTube.

Phillip: [00:23:04] Oh yeah. Yeah.

Ingrid: [00:23:06] Yeah. I agree.

Phillip: [00:23:08] You're probably not there yet, but I'm curious what the impact of potential resale value, like residual value of these investments you're making in baby stuff, does that impact your purchase behavior at all?

Ingrid: [00:23:21] Like knowing if I buy a SNOO that I could probably just resell it for a thousand bucks or whatever.

Phillip: [00:23:28] Exactly.

Ingrid: [00:23:28] Quite frankly, that just seems like a lot of work for a very tired mom. That seems like it would justify the purchase, but it would never actually happen. And so I think the beneficiary of that would be the brand.

Phillip: [00:23:43] But do you think that there's, just asking another question... By the way, the answer I would have preferred is "Absolutely yes." And I would say, "Oh, that's great, because that's part of our Vision 2021 report that had a great theme that mapped...

Brian: [00:23:57] I'll comment on this. Finish your thought.

Phillip: [00:23:59] No, that was like, go ahead.

Brian: [00:24:01] So my comment on this, especially with baby stuff, I think you end up wanting to pass it along to another person, which still plays into our report.

[00:24:11] A SNOO?

Ingrid: [00:24:11] Definitely.

Brian: [00:24:11] Yes. No, even a SNOO.

Phillip: [00:24:13] I don't know. Product eternal. Product eternal.

Brian: [00:24:14] Product eternal. Yeah. So it's still going to have a second life. You're right. You only use it for a short period of time. But oftentimes what you find yourself doing is like friends and family that have babies after you. You're like, "Oh, I have this stuff."

Phillip: [00:24:29] I mean car seats. Yeah, "I've got all the stuff."

Brian: [00:24:31] Yeah.

Phillip: [00:24:32] Yeah. There's always a need for it to go to someone else.

Brian: [00:24:36] Especially like clothes, too. Because you're like, oh I don't want to give these to strangers. They're my kids clothes like it is you end up passing them on to someone you know. I don't know.

Phillip: [00:24:46] I don't care. I grab that stuff, and I just pitch it.

Ingrid: [00:24:49] Get that out of my house.

Phillip: [00:24:50] Yeah. Goodwill. Get it out of my sight.

Brian: [00:24:53] What happens to your kid's Jordan's when they're done wearing them? Because they don't...

Phillip: [00:24:54] Well my kids just got their first Jordan's.

Ingrid: [00:24:57] You put them on the rearview mirror.

Phillip: [00:24:58] {laughter} Yeah. Yeah. Do you remember going to like McDonald's in the 80's and they had like baby shoes that were like bronzed that were...

Brian: [00:25:10] I was a baby in the 80s.

Ingrid: [00:25:15] Same.

Phillip: [00:25:16] Shut up, Brian.

Brian: [00:25:18] {laughter}

Phillip: [00:25:18] All right. So anyway, what about, Ingrid? And tell me if this line of questioning starts to get annoying... Do you think that your change of scenery impacted? Think about what it was like to be in Brooklyn and the way you would have purchased for your social network and community there and sort of like does that change the way that? Is the Graco good enough in Brooklyn? Would you have changed your sort of decision making for the new environs that you live in now?

Brian: [00:25:47] What do you think about Seattle right now? Come on now.

Phillip: [00:25:49] No, I'm not saying anything.

Ingrid: [00:25:50] That's a very valid question. I think about that. I think that the rest of my requests for things and things that I want are still very much in the hoity toity Brooklyn world and that probably, yeah, like I still want the Baby Bjorn things and especially the things that are going to be in my home that are on display of some sort. Like the changing... Sorry, the... I'm losing my words here. Where they sit at the table, the high chair.

Brian: [00:26:30] The high chair. Yes.

Ingrid: [00:26:31] Like that is a very visible... So of course I order like an Italian designed high chair. It's going to be at my dining room table and the little swing that they're on, like that's going to be a gray color. There's not going to be a single primary color of child things. There's no like bright red and yellows and greens and blues in my house. Like it's all neutral tones and comforting, you know, light mint color and light gray and gender neutral. And so there's no, like, Toys R US color story happening. So I think that might answer your question and also make everyone want to vomit.

Brian: [00:27:14] {laughter} I think you you're on to something here, which is while a lot of the colors and such are for baby, because babies are observing everything as they grow up. Also, a lot of it's for you.

Ingrid: [00:27:28] Yeah. {laughter}.

Brian: [00:27:30] For you and for your guests. Right? When you have people over, you're like this is the sort of environment that I live in and want to live in. And you do live in. And so like their high chair, they're thinking about the food that's on the tray.

Ingrid: [00:27:45] Right.

Brian: [00:27:45] And they're absorbing the fact that they're in wood or whatever, but like the fact that it was made in Italy...

Ingrid: [00:27:54] Probably not.

Brian: [00:27:55] Not so much. Yeah. {laughter}

Ingrid: [00:27:58] That's entirely for me and also how easy it is to clean. So, like, don't get me wrong, I want to be practical, but I will not get those hideous primary color ones that are just plastic.

Brian: [00:28:10] Do not get the trays that you like that I like have nooks and crannies in them. They're the worst.

Phillip: [00:28:16] Let me put it in perspective of the time. I assume most of this has been done online.

Ingrid: [00:28:25] Oh, all of it.

Phillip: [00:28:27] Yeah. We went to Babies R US and had like a scanner gun.

Ingrid: [00:28:35] {laughter}

Phillip: [00:28:35] That was our wedding, or our baby registry. An online registry in 2010 would have been. Very novel.

Ingrid: [00:28:44] Oh, yeah.

Phillip: [00:28:45] We had an Amazon registry that literally nobody shopped on for us.

Ingrid: [00:28:49] Wow. And now I have to shout this out. The registry that we ended up using is called BabyList, and it is effing brilliant.

Phillip: [00:28:59] Is it?

Ingrid: [00:29:00] Yeah, it basically it aggregates, it has all of the items, and it aggregates pricing. So you're like this is the Graco bassinet that I want. And then it tells you, tells the buyer, all three or four places where you can buy it and the going price.

Brian: [00:29:23] Fantastic.

Ingrid: [00:29:23] And so you're not forcing your guests to go to Amazon or go to Target or go to Pottery Barn. And so it's completely like retailer agnostic and then they layer on top of that content. So they're like "The Top 10 Car Seats of 2021." And then just like, boom, add it right then in there. And then I'm just staring at my plug in on my browser and there's like a little add to BabyList plug in.

Phillip: [00:29:54] Oh my gosh.

Brian: [00:29:55] There you go. Browser plug in for registry.

Ingrid: [00:29:57] Whoever has thought of BabyList is a genius.

Phillip: [00:30:02] Yeah that's amazing. Wow. No, I'm sure that that existed in some fashion like, but it was much more decentralized, like all of that information was available online for sure. I mean, YouTube existed when I had our first kid.

Brian: [00:30:21] I just did a little lock up of BabyList. You ready?

Ingrid: [00:30:25] Yeah.

Phillip: [00:30:25] I'm ready.

Brian: [00:30:27] It's ex Amazon developer and raised capital from Chris Messina.

Phillip: [00:30:35] Oh, really?

Brian: [00:30:36] Yeah. Yeah. That's interesting to me.

Ingrid: [00:30:42] They hit it right.

Phillip: [00:30:43] It's an incredible, incredible place to have a great CX journey from, like shopping on other sites to shopping on this site to having content and commerce together. That makes so much sense. We didn't have, I don't think we had it. Amazon reviews was big when we were, it was early on for us. And but most of the like, we couldn't really get people to buy, like that was maybe factored into our purchase decision. But we weren't a Prime household at that point. I believe the thing that made us a Prime household, I have to go back and double check this. I believe the thing that made us a Prime household was subscribe and save and diapers because we were on early and then we shifted gears and went over to Amazon for diapers. And like that's the era in which we had our kids. And it was like Target and Babies R US. And that was the baby registry that we had. And you just kind of got what you got. It feels like there's so much more choice now, especially in the clothing and bedding space. Like there's really, really amazing, like small brands that create really... And even Etsy creators that do some really interesting stuff for baby.

Brian: [00:32:01] Yeah, I was thinking about this. This plays right into the new DIY and also the enthusiast [00:32:06] economy. This is sort of the ultimate enthusiast economy because once you have your baby, there's no going back. You become an enthusiast. You love your child. You're going to be all about your baby. And so you're automatically thrown into becoming an enthusiast about being a parent. And like stepping into that, what does that look like? And I think that the new DIY plays into this because we have so much choice now and we have Etsy and we have these options. I think it sort of all ties together. It's very interesting. [00:32:41]

Ingrid: [00:32:41] Yeah. It's also funny because I can't tell [00:32:45]... A lot of it seems like there's a path for each type of mom, you know? So it's like there is a pattern that the sustainable minimalist eco mom buys. And then there's the boujee mom that, like won't have anything but the SNOO and all the fancy branded terms. And then there's like the Target mom who was just like, I gotta be a mom now and figure this out, and get on things, and I don't know where to start. And there's just all of these mommy personas. And I feel like the marketing behind it and the product development behind it is very much keen to that and plays into that. [00:33:28]

Phillip: [00:33:29] Hmm.

Brian: [00:33:31] I feel like they're early adopters of a lot of things we've talked about. Like the connection to customer, supporting their customer, building out community. There's probably a case study in here, maybe with the bump or something around how the sort of baby economy has actually spurred a lot of the innovation in the rest of our industry. I would imagine so.

Ingrid: [00:33:57] Totally. Yeah, it is so connective. And just going back real quick to the YouTuber thing, so my favorite mommy YouTuber is Jess Hoover. And she's this like laid back like California cool mom. And she's kind of like, you know, she's three kids now and she's always just like, she keeps it very real and she's not judgmental. And she kind of makes fun of very judgmental mommy culture. And so when she came out with a product line and a website. And it's called like The Very Good Mothers Club. And it's basically just a joke on, like, how everyone is a very good mother and like, you're just doing the best that you possibly can. And she's always talking about how, you know, I have my three kids and it's not very easy and we're not, like, super, super rich. And these are the things that I actually use. I'm not selling anything that I don't myself use on one of my three children. And she just comes at it from like a very real point of view. And I think that it's so interesting watching an influencer go from recommending products to then having their own website where they not only create products, but also sell third party, other brands, and things like that. And just again, this really natural evolution, to Brian's point that I think mommies and that type of industry is spearheading more so than any other.

Phillip: [00:37:02] This is something that I knew instinctively that obviously this is like look at Ryan Kaji and Ryan's world. Obviously content creators can become prolific licensees. I don't know, they become brands unto themselves and and you quickly find them.

Ingrid: [00:37:22] Yeah.

Phillip: [00:37:22] I guess it never occurred to me that this can absolutely happen in this sort of like expertise of the early stages of childhood and development and having a baby and transitioning that part of your life. Of course. Of course. And you know what? Actually, this is such an interesting topic because primarily these are things you only get one shot at buying.

Ingrid: [00:37:47] Right.

Phillip: [00:37:48] It's such a short time of your life where you're kind of wrapped up in this moment, like things kind of settle down after four or five years. And you kind of like they are kids that just wipe their own butts and, you know, they kind of feed themselves.

Ingrid: [00:38:07] They figure it out.

Phillip: [00:38:07] And over time they become a lot more like, you know, normal, everyday functioning human beings. There's this short period of time wherein you need a lot of stuff to get them to just survive. And that's you only get one shot to do that well.

Ingrid: [00:38:27] Yeah.

Phillip: [00:38:29] That's like high stakes.

Ingrid: [00:38:30] And then additional stress about it, at least for me, is that so much of it is still like plastic, like single, not single use plastic, but the bathtubs and whatever, and I'm just like I don't want to buy all this plastic, but they don't make it in wood or wouldn't make any sense. And so it's like I'm going to buy a baby bath tub, which of course, it's going to be plastic. It has to be the rock star of all baby tubs. And I have to like peruse through hours and hours of reviews online and watching YouTube to know which baby bath tub I have to buy because I have to make this piece of plastic purchase work.

Brian: [00:39:14] Side note, products made with wood are going to be hot coming up in the next couple of years. Total prediction. I think it's going to be a lot.

Ingrid: [00:39:24] There's a bunch of wood things in my registry.

Brian: [00:39:28] Wood is totally in. And I think there's going to be more and more stuff coming up here.

Phillip: [00:39:34] By the way, lumber just in general is becoming pretty scarce and very expensive.

Brian: [00:39:39] That's true. Yes.

Phillip: [00:39:40] So that's a whole, that might be cost prohibitive there on the prediction, Bri Bri. So there is something totally slept on is a... I remember like the way that we bought things was we didn't know that we needed them. And then you have to rush out and go get them. And maybe this is like I'm just going to throw one or two things at you. By the way, I didn't mean to spend 30 minutes on baby stuff, if you want to switch gears.

Ingrid: [00:40:07] Any kind of like home decor and baby stuff is all I can possibly talk about these.

Phillip: [00:40:15] You're in it. You're nesting.

Ingrid: [00:40:16] I'm so in it.

Phillip: [00:40:16] A kneeling pad. Do you know that you need a kneeling pad? Have you thought have you realized this yet?

Ingrid: [00:40:24] Like for bath time and stuff when they're in the tub? I didn't think of that. In my head, I have gone through this scenario and I was just going to put a towel down.

Brian: [00:40:33] Yes, that's what I did.

Phillip: [00:40:36] Gosh, do I just have, like, really sensitive knees or something?

Ingrid: [00:40:41] So I haven't tried out the towel thing. So maybe I'm going to have to hit you up for your knee guards.

Phillip: [00:40:48] I mean, that's the problem.

Brian: [00:40:50] Do you have, like, a bath...

Phillip: [00:40:53] Brian, listen, man.

Brian: [00:40:55] Extra sensitive knees. I got it.

Phillip: [00:40:58] You got to try it. You got to try the kneeling pad. You got to try the kneeling pad.

Ingrid: [00:41:03] Is it like squishy?

Phillip: [00:41:06] It's squishy. We're both... You're not watching video if you're listening to this show, but we're both like making the PAC Man with our fingers. It's very squishy and it makes it more comfortable. And if you have more than one kid and you got a bath both of them, then you're going to be on your knees for a long time. Brian has an entire zoo. I don't see how, like, you must have the toughest knees of any person.

Brian: [00:41:30] And I think that's probably what happened. I mean, like, I don't even notice anymore.

Phillip: [00:41:33] His knees are two gigantic calluses.

Ingrid: [00:41:35] {laughter}

Brian: [00:41:35] Yeah.

Phillip: [00:41:36] They're like three inches thick. His knees.

Brian: [00:41:38] Back to baby products for a sec. You just demonstrated something that I did want to talk about within the baby industry and then at large. And that is within the baby world, you get people... You get white hot centers around products. You get people who are like, "Oh, you don't have those such and such. You have to have the such and such," you know what I mean?

Ingrid: [00:42:03] Oh yeah. Like you don't love your child if you don't...

Brian: [00:42:05] You can't even get by without this. How could you even be a parent without this? Like Sophie the Giraffe was the big thing when we were...

Phillip: [00:42:15] What?

Brian: [00:42:15] Oh yeah.

Phillip: [00:42:15] What is that thing?

Brian: [00:42:17] Dated myself right there because I had kids when I was young. So yeah, it was like this...

Phillip: [00:42:21] What is Sophie the Giraffe?

Ingrid: [00:42:22] I heard of Sophie the Giraffe.

Brian: [00:42:24] Yeah. Like everyone had this giraffe toy. Yeah.

Ingrid: [00:42:28] It's like a silicone giraffe toy.

Brian: [00:42:33] Yeah. Everyone had it back when my kids were little.

Phillip: [00:42:37] I feel like you guys are both hazing me. This does not sound like the thing.

Brian: [00:42:42] {laughter} It was a thing. I'm also old. Apparently. This is the part where I feel older than you, Phillip, which is not true.

Phillip: [00:42:50] But let me just say, like those things sort of come in and out of fashion, Brian.

Brian: [00:42:56] They do. Absolutely.

Phillip: [00:42:57] Those things are very fashionable. A kneeling pad is forever. I just want to remind you.

Brian: [00:43:06] {laughter}

Ingrid: [00:43:06] {laughter} Full circle back to kneeling pads.

Brian: [00:43:06] Kneeling pads.

Phillip: [00:43:06] But if you go on Amazon right now, you're going to get three thousand kneeling pads of all kinds of shapes and sizes and price points. Right? Like we had back in my day, it's whatever you had at Target, that was the kneeling pad you got. It was like whatever the buyer at Target decided to get that season is the one you got.

Brian: [00:43:31] And that is true for me at Costco.

Ingrid: [00:43:33]  [00:43:33]But do we need that much variation? And this is the problem, actually. I would so much rather have the one kneeling pad that is available to me at Target then the 6000 that are on Amazon, because now I have choice anxiety. [00:43:48]

Phillip: [00:43:48] Well, that's an interesting... Oh wow.

Brian: [00:43:51] Totally.

Phillip: [00:43:53] OK, whoa, yeah, yeah, no, no pull on that thread for a second. That's insane.

Ingrid: [00:43:58] For example... This is good. So I'm clearly, remember I'm very proud of my register and how I think it's the best on earth.

Phillip: [00:44:05] Oh I remember.

Ingrid: [00:44:06] And so I'm just about to sell it for, like, lots of... I'm going to NFT my registry.

Phillip: [00:44:12] {laughter}

Brian: [00:44:17] {laughter} That was a good one.

Phillip: [00:44:18] Yeah. Go ahead.

Ingrid: [00:44:19] Mind you my I have four best friends since childhood. All four of us are in various stages of pregnancy right now at the exact same time.

Brian: [00:44:30] Wow.

Phillip: [00:44:31] Wow.

Ingrid: [00:44:31] One of them, who is the last our thread to... She's like eight weeks behind me. And so I'm like, "Girl, I'm going to give you the greatest gift ever. I'm going to give you my registry and you should just copy."

Phillip: [00:44:45] This is how you know it's love.

Ingrid: [00:44:48] And so she's like, "Oh, my friend Amy," who's now on her third kid or whatever. And she's like, "She sent me like a word document of all the stuff that she suggests to buy." And I'm like, "Oh, send it to me. I'm just curious." So I look at it and it says, like "bassinet." And then it says, like "baby tub" and I was like, "This isn't even scratching the surface of what you need. The level of detail is not here. Which bassinet? Which tub?" And it's just so funny because she's very sweet and kind of naive about all of this, not realizing the depths of options and brands and messaging and everything that's connected to making these decisions. It just says "bassinet."

Phillip: [00:45:37] Just says "bassinet." What kind of a monster?

Brian: [00:45:40] She needs a Sophie the Giraffe for her baby products. That's what we need to do.

Ingrid: [00:45:47] Let's take like ten steps back here. The person with the list that just says bassinet is significantly happier than I am, I can tell you.

Phillip: [00:45:53] Oh, that's Oooo. OK.

Ingrid: [00:45:55] Because they're not stressed about which brand or the SNOO versus the Graco versus the Halo. There's just so much that like is it so impressive that I've done this with my baby registry? Or am I just an actual psychopath?

Phillip: [00:46:14] Yeah, that person with bassinet in my mind is chaotic evil. They're just like, whatever bassinet happens to exist when they need one is the one they're going to get.

Brian: [00:46:25] That's just pragmatic though.

Phillip: [00:46:26] That's the monoculture. That's the monoculture work right there.

Ingrid: [00:46:30] The simplicity of that is so impressive to me.

Phillip: [00:46:33] It's freeing almost.

Brian: [00:46:34] I think you have to pick your battles here. I think there is a time and a place to get, just thinking back to my baby days. And they were many and long.

Phillip: [00:46:44] Many, many, many, many. He has a lot of kids, you guys.

Ingrid: [00:46:50] He has a football team.

Brian: [00:46:51] Basically. I don't know, somewhere in there. Somewhere in that range.

Phillip: [00:46:54] He has four kids. It's not that many. I mean, it's a lot, but they're all boys, so it kind of counts as eight. Anyway. Go ahead.

Brian: [00:47:00] There's certain things where if you get it wrong, it will have a significant impact on you.

Phillip: [00:47:07] The kneeling pad, for instance.

Ingrid: [00:47:10] {laughter} He's been paid by Big Kneeling Pad.

Brian: [00:47:15] Clearly there is some sponsorship going on here.

Phillip: [00:47:17] Yeah. Yeah, I'm on the take with Big Kneeling Pad.

Brian: [00:47:22] It's an industry. There's an industry association for kneeling pads.

Phillip: [00:47:27] There probably is actually.

Ingrid: [00:47:28] Poor Brian. Brian, finish your thought.

Phillip: [00:47:31] Paid by the Kneeling Pad Association.

Brian: [00:47:33] Like bottles are really important to get right. If you're going to use a bottle...

Phillip: [00:47:36] Really?

Brian: [00:47:36] Oh yeah. Because like some bottles caused a lot of problems for some of my kids.

Phillip: [00:47:40] You're so loud right now. Hold on. What about the bottles?

Brian: [00:47:43] Oh sorry. I'm like yelling into the microphone. Some of the bottles caused problems. They caused issues for our children with tummy issues and so on.

Phillip: [00:47:50] Really?

Brian: [00:47:51] Yes.

Phillip: [00:47:51] See, we didn't have that. We just got the one that was like it said it didn't have BPA. BPA free. Done. Bottle.

Ingrid: [00:47:59] Yeah.

Brian: [00:47:59] I don't know, maybe that didn't matter to you. You got to pick your battles. Like you went pragmatic on that. I need a bottle. I'm going to buy a bottle. You just bassineted it.

Phillip: [00:48:08] That's true.

Brian: [00:48:09] Bassineted it.

Phillip: [00:48:10] I'm fascinated by the brands, at least in big box retail, that are baby brands that you don't really equate to being baby brands like Philips. To me, Philips. It's Philips and Norelco are like it's the shaver brand or it's the like random home appliance brand. But they make all the bottles like you go and you OK, there's a Philips Avant bottle and that's the one. And if you go to a grocery store or you go to a big box store, that's the one you're going to get. And if you want another one, good luck. I don't know if there has been...

Ingrid: [00:48:50] Oh yeah.

Phillip: [00:48:51] Is there a direct to consumer bottle now?

Ingrid: [00:48:52] Oh, yeah, there's a lot, actually. So going into both... The bottles and the pacifiers are deep, deep, deep wormholes that one can find oneself in that I may or may not have swam down deep into. But now the brilliant thing, again, my ever loving BabyList moment is they have created sample packs of bottles and pacifiers for you to test before go and buy the whole, like, baby bottle ecosystem.

Brian: [00:49:31] Smart.

Phillip: [00:49:31] Wow.

Ingrid: [00:49:31] Because, of course you're going to do that. And so they give you like the top six brands and you can see which one your fussy baby...

Phillip: [00:49:39] You're going to have to do like a study with your kid with the six bottles in the sampler pack, and you're going to ask them to fill out an NPS. Like on a scale of one to 10, how likely are you to recommend this to your other friends and babies? And baby's like "Nine" and you're like "Promotor."

Brian: [00:50:02] This is personal data. This is why we're all going to have more data in a single day coming up in the coming decade than we recorded in all the 2020.

Ingrid: [00:50:14] Throw in the baby data.

Brian: [00:50:15] Exactly. Yes.

Ingrid: [00:50:16] So there's the changing pad that is on my registry. It weighs your baby.

Brian: [00:50:23] There it is. This is it.

Phillip: [00:50:24] Ohh. No way.

Ingrid: [00:50:24] You can track... Well, because there's all these questions like you're breastfeeding. And so it's like, are they actually eating? And so you can actually weigh your baby before and after you nurse him.

Phillip: [00:50:38] Shut your mouth.

Ingrid: [00:50:39] To make sure that they actually got some of your breast milk.

Phillip: [00:50:43] I remember very distinctly trying to weigh Camille when she was really young and like the only thing we had was like a Weight Watchers analog scale.

Ingrid: [00:50:55] That you stand on holding the baby?

Phillip: [00:50:55] No, no. This was like a food scale. Where we had a bowl that we put our actual live human beings child inside of like a popcorn bowl. And we weighed her.

Ingrid: [00:51:14] {laughter} That's adorable. Maybe you can pass that down to me. I'm about to drop one hundred and eighty dollars on this changing table with a friggin scale on it.

Phillip: [00:51:26] {laughter} Wow. I said that out loud.

Brian: [00:51:28] Smart Baby.

Phillip: [00:51:28] I just told everybody that we weighed our child in a popcorn bowl.

Ingrid: [00:51:34] So cute.

Phillip: [00:51:34] I can never unsay that. It's a thing that...

Ingrid: [00:51:38] You got to do what you got to do.

Brian: [00:51:40] This was 10 years ago. We didn't have the technology of today back then in our day.

Phillip: [00:51:48] I struggle to think... The kind of sort of knock on effects of having a kid for us was I had an Acura RDX at the time, and that was my daily driver. Very nice crossover, sort of middling luxury car. The problem was, is that we did not consider the size of a rear facing car seat when we bought this car three years before we had a baby, so this is not a car that two human adults can sit in in the front seat with a rear facing car seat in the back seat. It wouldn't even fit in the middle. And it was like the rear facing car seat. And the situation there, like, immediately made us kick out to a minivan because that, like, I didn't want to be a minivan family, but we had to make a decision around what to buy that would fit our child. And we had to change our car because it was like not going to work. There you go. You become this person you don't want to become and make decisions sort of in isolation that like you wonder how other people become the parent that you don't want to be. It's like they didn't want to be that parent either. But now you're a minivan owning person, and you're just one slippery slope decision at a time.

Ingrid: [00:53:21] My husband and I think about this all the time. We talk about this all the time, specifically around the music that we are going to play like around our child. And so we are a hip hop family. And so we listen to a lot, but we listen to hip hop from like the 90s and 2000s. And so there's a lot of like Tupac and Notorious B.I.G. and that type of stuff, which to us is like the coolest of the cool thing. But then they're going to be like, "Oh, Mom, no more hip hop." And it's just so weird. But now we're just basically like we listen to the oldies station with, like, Nelly on it.

Phillip: [00:54:08] Oh the oldies has Nelly?

Brian: [00:54:09] Wait, the oldies has Nelly?

Ingrid: [00:54:09] There is a radio station out here in Seattle that plays like hip hop, basically now oldies, because it's probably 20 years ago.

Phillip: [00:54:19] It's true. Ohh.

Brian: [00:54:19] Hold on. You listen to the radio?

Ingrid: [00:54:24] When we're driving every so often. Yeah. We listen to a podcast, which The Rewatchables is another great podcast. Anyway, we listen to the radio every so often because this one station plays like It's Getting Hot in Here.

Phillip: [00:54:38] Yeah.

Ingrid: [00:54:39] So we're like listening to Nelly and then we're thinking about how we think it's hella cool. And then our kid is going to be like, "This is the lamest thing ever. Stop making me listen to Nelly, mom."

Phillip: [00:54:50] You know what's really great about this is that like you're going to screw your kid up no matter what you try to do. So you might as well enjoy yourself. We had a very similar sort of thing where I was like how do I incept my kids to have good taste, because I'm pretty sure that whatever I like, they're going to hate. And I was like, oh, so we wind up listening to things that no one likes because.

Brian: [00:55:17] Yeah, yeah.

Phillip: [00:55:18] So I just decided, you know what, like you get in my car and you're gonna hear the Smashing Pumpkins. I don't care what decade it is and I'm sorry. I'm now that guy. And you know what, my kids actually have grown up pretty cool. And they like that music or they tolerate it anyway. And, you know, they do some air guitar to it and like they can... It's fine.

Ingrid: [00:55:37] Yeah.

Phillip: [00:55:37] But I'll tell you, just to plug the minivan real quick, I can listen to whatever the h e double hockey sticks I want because they have a TV in the back with headphones and they aren't even in the same universe that I am for the entirety of a drive. It's kind of amazing.

Ingrid: [00:55:53] That's another layer of the demolition of monoculture.

Phillip: [00:55:59] It's true.

Ingrid: [00:56:01] They don't even to listen to your music because they are in their own world.

Phillip: [00:56:06] That's true.

Brian: [00:56:07] Is that good or bad though?

Ingrid: [00:56:07] I don't know.

Phillip: [00:56:07] You know what my kids do? This is insane. I mean, they have Alexi's in their room. They like they do their own thing. They are super into K Pop.

Ingrid: [00:56:19] Yeah.

Phillip: [00:56:20] Very into K Pop, and it's like influenced by Just Dance and some other stuff. They're very into K Pop and what little exposure they have to whatever popular music might be, is like it's actually not very relevant or current. It's informed by whatever OnDemand thing has piqued their interest to date. A good example. I'm like, what? My daughter is humming to herself and like singing while doing dishes. My youngest daughter, Pierce. And I'm like, "What are you singing?" And she's like, "Dad, it's In the Navy by the village people," and I'm like, "What?"

Ingrid: [00:57:04] Ah, that's interesting.

Phillip: [00:57:04] And I said, "Why are you singing that?" She's like, "It's on Just Dance."

Ingrid: [00:57:09] Wow.

Brian: [00:57:10] Interesting.

Phillip: [00:57:10] She has no... I don't even know if she has a concept of what is, "on the radio." Whatever is current right now is irrelevant.

Brian: [00:57:17] Right.

Phillip: [00:57:17]  [00:57:17]And even that part of monoculture has died. The only things that are relevant are the things that are influencing them at this exact moment, which is entirely time shifted and has nothing to do with...  [00:57:28]

Ingrid: [00:57:28]  [00:57:27]It's no linear at all.

Brian: [00:57:28]  [00:57:28]And I think this applies to everyone. I don't think that's just happening to kids. Like that is a really astute point about culture at large right now. We are influenced by whatever it is that's like happening. Like whatever. Or maybe we bump into something on the Internet and we're like, "Oh, I'm going to listen to that now." I don't really have a tastemaker in music that's dedicated to music. [00:57:53]

Ingrid: [00:57:54]  [00:57:54]Yeah.

Brian: [00:57:54]  [00:57:54]I have tastemakers from everywhere that are introducing me to new things all the time. It is true death of monoculture. I absolutely agree with that. [00:58:04]

Ingrid: [00:58:05] And and even like a step further to that, to your point that you made Phillip. I think it's brilliant. Even time and space doesn't matter. Things that were popular in the 60s and 70s or whatever, like think about even that TikTok that went viral with the Ocean Spray cranberry.

Phillip: [00:58:26] Yeah. The Fleetwood Mac song.

Ingrid: [00:58:32] And it's like how many people were used to Fleetwood Mac from TikTok? And it's like that song had a moment at that time. It's just so interesting.

Phillip: [00:58:42] And it charted which was really interesting.

Brian: [00:58:45] Anything can have a moment. Anything. That's interesting. That's interesting.

Phillip: [00:58:52] See that was really actually profound, what you said Brian, in that context. But out of context, it's like, well, duh. But you're right. Anything can come back, and I think that there's this really interesting moment right now, you're thinking of this as a parent to like there's things that I grew up on that I want to introduce to my kids.

Ingrid: [00:59:14] Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Phillip: [00:59:16] I want my kids to have the childhood that I had from like a media perspective. Like, I want them to be exposed to some of the cool stuff.

Brian: [00:59:24] Some of it's not very good, just so you know. No. How I figured this out.

Phillip: [00:59:29] No, well I figured this out.

Ingrid: [00:59:30] Sesame Street and Mr. Rogers, I feel like is...

Phillip: [00:59:34] They hold up. Yeah, for sure. Although they have destroyed Mr. Rogers for modern culture. Daniel Tiger's Neighborhood is an abomination and should never have existed.

Ingrid: [00:59:43] Oh, really? That's such a bummer.

Phillip: [00:59:45] It's so bad. Don't even.

Brian: [00:59:48] It's not good.

Phillip: [00:59:48] You're going to wind up watching it, even if you try not to.

Brian: [00:59:53] It's true.

Phillip: [00:59:54] There's an interesting. So Sesame Street is still very good on HBO Max, by the way. Very, very good. A lot of things that I held dear as a kid growing up in the 80s... The Neverending Story does not hold up.

Ingrid: [01:00:08] Oh no.

Phillip: [01:00:09] Terrible movie. Bad movie.

Brian: [01:00:11] Even a lot of Spielberg doesn't hold up very well. I know that's blasphemy, but, you know, it's actually not that good.

Phillip: [01:00:18] You know what's funny? You know, it holds up? This will blow your freaking mind, Brian Lange. Swiss family Robinson. Movies made before technology infiltrated cinema actually are still really great stories and still hold up.

Brian: [01:00:36] Well, it's a lot of like classic literature that came out of that. Like Treasure Island and, you know, that whole classic Disney category. Yeah, my kids like Swiss Family Robinson. They thought it was fun. I remember enjoying that as a kid.

Phillip: [01:00:51] It's a good romp.

Brian: [01:00:52] I think to your point, though, like for me, my seven year old was like, "Hey, Mom, can you play Spring by Vivaldi? I really like that part."

Phillip: [01:01:06] Oh my gosh.

Brian: [01:01:09] The point I'm trying to make is not that my kids like classical music, and that's not all of them. One of them is like, "Can you play Imagine Dragons?" And I'm like, "Oh... No."

Phillip: [01:01:22] {laughter} Your kids musical tastes run the gamut, man.

Brian: [01:01:25] My musical tastes run the gamut, too. But the point I'm making is that good is good. When something is quality, if it's done well it's like you can have something incredible come from anywhere. If it's done well then it's worthy of introducing.

Ingrid: [01:01:45] Yeah.

Phillip: [01:01:48] Sea Shanty TikTok is a great example of that.

Brian: [01:01:48] There you go. Exactly. That's where everything lands and comes back to. It's all back to Sea Shanty TikTok.

Phillip: [01:01:55] If we had to sort of wrap this up, Ingrid, so where did you land on the musical choices thing? You made a decision? You're already acclimating to it now to kind of prepare yourself for a world that doesn't have Cisco in it? Is that the thing that you're...

Ingrid: [01:02:12] No, no. I think we're going to... We also listen to a lot of, like, classic rock and R & B and and really love, like funky jazz and all sorts of different things. But it's just funny because that one station is what we listen to in the car. And so they're definitely going to grow up learning all of the words to It's Getting Hot in Here. And that's ok.

Phillip: [01:02:38] And three years old, you know, the Thong Song is just dropping hard bars on the Thong Song.

Ingrid: [01:02:46] Yeah. Also, like the violin in the Bong Song is fantastic. {laughter} There's no low brow about the Thong Song, in my opinion.

Phillip: [01:02:58] Oh, my goodness, that's so funny. We did something. So we tried very early on. We censored a lot of media when the kids were like immediately born. We like just changed everything, all our consumption habits, like let's just make it like totally acceptable for kids. And then I realized this is a four day old infant who maybe I shouldn't have explosions on the TV that will scare it awake. But let's just be honest. I can still watch Battlestar Galactica. It's not going to be... I don't have to sit here at 11:00 p.m. while the child is asleep next to me watching Mickey Mouse Clubhouse.

Ingrid: [01:03:39] One hundred percent. The one place that I do think we have a line to put our foot down on is like obnoxious children's television shows.

Brian: [01:03:50] Good luck.

Ingrid: [01:03:50] Like there's weird like Nickelodeon TV shows that have the most obnoxious children starring in them.

Phillip: [01:04:01] Yes.

Brian: [01:04:01] Oh, yes.

Phillip: [01:04:02] Unfortunately for you...

Ingrid: [01:04:04] No, I can't do it.

Phillip: [01:04:05] Try it. Just try it. But you know what? Peppa Pig was on repeat for a little while in our house. And despite everything I wanted...

Ingrid: [01:04:11] Peppa Pig's kind of a jerk. Isn't there's like the other kids show...

Phillip: [01:04:14] Caillou is a jerk.

Brian: [01:04:15] Caillou is a jerk.

Phillip: [01:04:17] Caillou is a complete flipping jerk.

Brian: [01:04:18] Forget the kid.

Ingrid: [01:04:20] Exactly.

Phillip: [01:04:20] Forget You by CeeLo Green is playing in Ingrid's car on the oldies station. You're right, though, but I think, like, there's a show going around right now called Bluey. And thank goodness my kids are a little too old for it because they're sort of into the, like, live action, like pretween drama stuff now. But I'm thinking, I don't know, it's kind of you, whether you like it or not, if it pacifies your kid, you're going to like it. Your hierarchy of needs shifts around a little bit.

Ingrid: [01:05:01] Yeah we'll pick our battles.

Brian: [01:05:03] Pick your battles.

Phillip: [01:05:07] You have to pick the battles. Pick the battles.

Brian: [01:05:08] Always.

Phillip: [01:05:08] For sure.

Brian: [01:05:09] Everything. Picking your battles is the way to go.

Phillip: [01:05:11] On your registry list just write children's programing and don't be too picky about this. {laughter} This has been amazing to have you.

Brian: [01:05:23] Oh man.

Phillip: [01:05:26] You have to send us your registry privately.

Brian: [01:05:31] You just need to publish it. You know what? Publish on NFT.

Ingrid: [01:05:35] I'm going to NFT it and then I'm going to sell it.

Brian: [01:05:39] There you go.

Phillip: [01:05:39] Do it, do it, it'll cost you a lot of money to mint things on the block chain right now. I don't know if you've looked into it.

Ingrid: [01:05:44] I know, I know. I am kidding. I probably won't. And but I love the idea that I could.

Phillip: [01:05:51] You know, you could probably get something for it. It could be a thing that's I think that's the thing. Ingrid, it's always awesome to have you on the show.

Brian: [01:05:59] The best.

Ingrid: [01:06:00] Thanks for asking.

Phillip: [01:06:01] You're amazing. Thank you all for listening. I'll take us home, if that's OK, Brian.

Brian: [01:06:05] Do it.

Phillip: [01:06:06] All right. Don't miss anything that we create because it's all important to you, because commerce touches everything and we have the ability to change commerce. So, hey, you can go get all the stuff at and grab our newest report. It was months and months and months of work, and it's going to help you save months and months and months of time of trying to figure out where to take your retail business next. And that's called Vision 2021. You can get it at and get one of our two newsletters or heck, why not both of them? The Senses comes out every Friday. Tuesday we have a new edition of Insiders long form essay about things that should matter to you in your retail business. You can get those. Both of them. Subscribe with just one email and get both for absolutely free. And you can get that at All right. Thanks for listening and we'll see you next time. Episode 199. Can you believe that? This is crazy.

Brian: [01:06:59] Oh my gosh.

Phillip: [01:06:59] Amazing.

Brian: [01:07:07] See you on 200.

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