"I Do Not Consent to Your Livestream"

Brian: [00:00:00] This idea of an AI that was sort of like a constant life coach, helping you make decisions about what was financially smart for you. You go to make a purchase and it's like, "Hey, maybe that's not a good idea."

Phillip: [00:00:15] Bro, I hear that all the time. I literally hear that all the time. It's in my head already. I don't need technology to give it to me. I ignore that voice. I already do that. I ignore that voice all the time. It's like, "You don't need that." "Yes, I do." Bang, here comes my credit card.

Brian: [00:00:33] I'll find a way to make more money later.

Phillip: [00:00:33] You know what drowns out that sound? The cha-ching of the cash register.

Brian: [00:00:38] Commerce saves us from AI assistants.

Phillip: [00:02:02] Hello and welcome to Future Commerce, the podcast at the intersection of culture and Commerce. I'm Phillip.

Brian: [00:02:07] I'm Brian.

Phillip: [00:02:09] Big show for you here today. We're going to cover a whole lot of things. We are not going to hallucinate on our way to creating the best podcast in eCommerce. But you know who is hallucinating, Brian?

Brian: [00:02:19] It's AI.

Phillip: [00:02:22] AI is hallucinating. It's making all of us... It's misinforming the world. Did you know... This is a new piece of information. Did you know that you can melt an egg?

Brian: [00:02:33] Oh, can you?

Phillip: [00:02:35] You can. According to a recent search, Google has been misinformed by Quora, the online community that answers questions, posts questions and answers them. That community has an unbelievably authoritative voice as far as it's concerned, as far as Google's search rank and algorithm is concerned. And apparently, Quora's been caught out recently on identifying long tail searches and having ChatGPT or Openai's GPT4 product provide authoritative results that are generative AI-based and not based on human responses. And this is creating problems for long tail search phrases like "Can you melt an egg?" Which a recent story that made the rounds showed a Google search that has since been corrected that Google is, you know, serving up this content with its native content feature.

Brian: [00:03:31] It is interesting because Quora's long ranked well in Google searches. And it's interesting because Google just made a big update to how they rank things.

Phillip: [00:03:43] Yeah. Helpful content.

Brian: [00:03:43] The helpful content update. Yeah. And so, Phillip, you were excited because it's helped us a little bit based on the type of content that we create. This update is really meaningful, and I think the goal of the update is maybe to make sure that it's like there aren't a bunch of generic AI summaries that are taking over all of our content and results, especially when you can go ask an AI directly about some of that stuff if you want it. I think this really begs the question of what is important to catalog now that we have ChatGPT? If we can just go ask an LLM a question to something and get probably a more reliable answer than we would potentially Googling it and just go directly to the LLM, how does that change Google's role in what they catalog and why they catalog it and why they rank it?

Phillip: [00:04:49] That is, I think, the systemic risk and probably the biggest thing that could be disruptive to Google's business model around search in the next decade. I know Google feels that way. That's why they're competing so furiously with Bard. I know the FTC feels that way because they're going after Google now.

Brian: [00:05:09] It's funny that this is finally the moment that they're going after Google.

Phillip: [00:05:13] They're actually suing Amazon. The investigation of Google's monopolization of search is a long standing conversation. Let's look around the next corner, right, Brian? In a new segment called Future Casting on Future Commerce. If you were to think about this, a couple of things that we have talked about for years now. Who is Google competing with in this new LLM future? Well, Meta has made a really big push and a big bet on open source. So if there is an appetite for the future of search being open source, then that means that the future of human knowledge is this idea of intelligence and probability-based models like large language models that just generate predictive output. That's something that can be reduced and has already been reduced to about a terabyte in size. And if you think about the density of storage, maybe all of human knowledge can sit at the edge on your phone and not need to talk to the Internet or need a giant supercomputer to calculate it for you at some future state. So maybe there is this idea that we need to continue to constantly index the Internet and have increasingly less relevant results because it continues to index AI-generated content, not human-generated content. Maybe there is a future where that becomes less of a problem because we don't need to do as much indexing anymore for most of the types of search activity you'd be looking for.

Brian: [00:06:46] So wild.

Phillip: [00:06:46] Yeah, maybe that's how the future shapes up. There's another possibility too, you know, the helpful content update, like you said. It changes the playing field for a lot of people who've made big investments in SEO over the years. A lot of people said that TikTok was going to be the disruptive force. You remember that discourse a year ago? Oh, TikTok is going to take down Google. Why do people go search for things on Google when you can have a human tell you on TikTok? Well, there's a story we just put out about a new AI-generated deepfake where influencers in China are unbelievably convincing to be selling items on a live stream that is perpetual and never-ending because they're not actually human. And that idea of the distrust of the person who's creating content that's selling things to you is something that could also disrupt this authoritative idea of a human selling things to you from TikTok. So a lot of the think pieces I think, in the last year have become kind of moot in the way that these updates are changing how people are investing.

Brian: [00:08:00] I think that's a really good point. Distrust is one of the biggest issues right now, and it's sort of the next generation's native to distrust something. You know, even I saw even the current generation, like Michael Miraflor, a friend of Future Commerce, he was saying, I can't tell if this is real, real fake or fake real onto one of those potentially AI-generated videos. Who knows? It's weird the style of videos, things that seem fake maybe aren't fake and things that are fake maybe are. The world is so wild it's hard to have a filter that you can trust that's your own filter now.

Phillip: [00:08:51] Let's talk about that because that's a really interesting dynamic. Your guard might be up in certain arenas.

Brian: [00:08:59] Right. And it's interesting. I do wonder if there's a little bit of a generational thing going on here with technology because boomers and older generations had a really hard time. If you remember back in the day what your grandma used to forward you. That was sort of the thing. It was like, "Oh, watch out for this..."

Phillip: [00:09:18] What I still get in group text. Yes. Right.

Brian: [00:09:20] Right, right. So it was really hard for some generations to absorb this information and understand what was real, have that kind of filter that was innate in them. Whereas we look at those things and we're like, "Oh yeah, that's obviously fake. That's clearly not verified information." I wonder if humans will be able to adapt to this new style of things happening. Some people already are. I've seen people be like, "Yeah, I can tell. I can usually tell when something's AI-generated." I don't know if I believe them.

Phillip: [00:09:56] Let's okay, let's use rather than just pontificate about what might have happened, let's look backwards and see how something from our recent past might inform the way that we look at our near future. Here's a good example. Have you ever used the phrase "That didn't hold up," right?

Brian: [00:10:16] Yeah. Yeah, of course.

Phillip: [00:10:16] So for instance, I watched, you know, my kids are 11 and 12. The last few years we've been watching a lot of movies from my childhood. Okay, I've been watching lots of movies. Brian, Jurassic Park holds up.

Brian: [00:10:29] Pretty well.

Phillip: [00:10:29] It holds up it. It's still really good. For whatever reason, The Matrix Reloaded does not hold up. It does not hold up. Listen, forget the narrative. Forget the story. Forget the acting. Things that were genuinely impressive from a VFX perspective that blew your mind when you first saw it. I watched that million man brawl scene, the epic scene in Matrix Reloaded. I must have watched that QuickTime file that I torrented like 40,000 times. And today it looks like a bunch of like rubber, you know, bad VFX. So I think that we do develop an eye for these things in the long run, but we're fooled in the present. So here's an interesting thing. I think your generational divide insight is really important because I think where it matters or where I think commerce comes into this story is we are primed to be skeptical right now. At this moment, we are primed to be skeptical and to notice and to look for disinformation in areas of politics, in areas of religion, maybe even celebrity news, things that are sensationalized or weaponized to make you think a certain way or feel a certain thing. Where we are not prepared for it is in the area of commerce where you are not prepared for disinformation. You are more likely to be persuaded. Your guard is down in this realm of deepfakes, VFX, fake out-of-home. All of these campaigns are very easily mistaken to be real because you would never believe that Jacquemus would fake handbags driving around Paris because that's not even a thing that you would ever consider as possible or would ever be done in that arena. But a Trump deepfake, you'd be like, maybe that's not real.

Brian: [00:12:41] Right. Totally. Yeah, I think that's a really good point. The things that seem like they are often sensationalized, that are polarizing, you are less likely to believe. Whereas things that come from a brand or come from a... Yeah, I think that's a really astute point. The fake out-of-home thing is super interesting as well because...

Phillip: [00:13:05] As a trend.

Brian: [00:13:05] Are people actually... People don't even care if it's real or not. If it's an idea that someone's able to pull off, it's actually it's almost just as fun that it's not real.

Phillip: [00:13:18] Yeah, because it's viral on its own. And just for those who don't have the background, the term fake-out-of-home, you could go back and listen to an episode that we did, I think called Blimp Commerce, where we talked a lot about fake-out-of-home. Fake-out-of-home (faux-out-of-home) is a term that describes 3D VFX work that shows a large scale out, sometimes outdoor brand activation that's not actually real. For instance, Netflix had, if I recall correctly, for one of their series, they had a condom unfurling on a like, I don't know, the Eiffel Tower or something like that. That's something that just they never would have done.

Brian: [00:13:57] It was on an obelisk, I think.

Phillip: [00:13:59] Oh sorry. It was an obelisk. Whatever is also phallic. I mentioned the handbag example. There are lots of brands that are doing this now because VFX work is done quickly, cheaply, and with stunningly, very surprisingly realistic results.

Brian: [00:14:14] Interesting. Doing that really, really well though, is actually kind of expensive. And so some people are actually pulling off some of these stunts in real life because it might be actually easier to execute the real life thing than to do it so well.

Phillip: [00:14:29] The Marc Jacobs tote the inflatable. Right. It's informing real life, right? Yeah. Really interesting stuff that's happening, that's woven a lot of things together. I definitely want to touch on another topic. We'll get to it in just a little bit because I have a lot to say about spatial commerce, spatial computing, and some stuff because there's some news out pretty soon. But Brian, I have a quiz for you, some trivia you're familiar with Star Wars. Obviously, Star Wars generally has like some tropes, one of which is like a cantina scene, right?

Brian: [00:16:18] Yeah, like a lot of Star Wars have a cantina scene.

Phillip: [00:16:21] Yeah, there's a cantina scene, and there's usually a band that's playing music in the cantina.

Brian: [00:16:29] It's probably some of the best music to come out of Star Wars. Just kidding. Just kidding.

Phillip: [00:16:34] That music. So. And you could probably sing it right? Do you know how the tune goes?

Brian: [00:16:38] Of course. Yeah.

Phillip: [00:16:38] Go for it. Just give me a little bit of it.

Brian: [00:16:40] Doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo. Something like that.

Phillip: [00:16:43] Yeah, it's like that. Exactly. Did you know that that music has a name?

Brian: [00:16:50] I think I did know that. I used to really, really like the Star Wars soundtrack. And so back when I was a kid, I would rent it from the library on CD and listen to it. So, yeah, I looked at all the track names. I thought it was awesome. John Williams. Big fan.

Phillip: [00:17:09] So apparently Disney is quietly removing this music from its Star Wars continuity little by little. There's a news story over on Boing Boing, the name of this style of music, believe it or not, Brian is called Jizz.

Brian: [00:17:27] Oh, and I didn't know. Is this real?

Phillip: [00:17:29] This article over on Boing Boing. Disney is quietly removing Jizz from the Star Wars continuity. You're a big fan of Jizz and it sounds like.

Brian: [00:17:39] Apparently. Apparently so.

Phillip: [00:17:43] You would go to the library and go home. Just to be entertained by Jizz it sounds like.

Brian: [00:17:51] I would rent a CD and bring it home. Where are we headed with this? Is this even real?

Phillip: [00:17:58] This is real. This is a real story, Brian.

Brian: [00:18:01] Did this get them banned on TikTok?

Phillip: [00:18:02] This is culture and commerce, I'll have you know.

Brian: [00:18:05] Is this what you're headed? TikTok Commerce? They tried to go sell the CD. They tried to go sell the CD.

Phillip: [00:18:12] Updated terms of service said they're not allowed to sell Jizz on TikTok.

Brian: [00:18:16] Exactly.

Phillip: [00:18:16] Tiktok shops. No, you can no longer. This is it. True story. You can't sell Jizz on TikTok. Not allowed.

Brian: [00:18:27] Wow. This is real. This is for real.

Phillip: [00:18:32] I grew up with Jizz in my Star Wars. And I'm personally very, very upset.

Brian: [00:18:39] I feel like... Yeah. Wait, hold on. Why are they removing it? Is it just because of the name?

Phillip: [00:18:43] I don't know. So they're also renaming it. So canonically they're renaming it to Jatz, which doesn't have the same sort of impact.

Brian: [00:18:51] Jatz feels safer. It feels like a safer choice.

Phillip: [00:18:55] It doesn't feel as good as Jizz. I'm being honest. That's just me. I don't know. Yeah. So they're de-Jizzing the Star Wars universe. It's really sad.

Brian: [00:19:09] But why. Tell me?

Phillip: [00:19:10] They're not saying why. They don't know why. Do you know what's really funny? I love this. There is a story that I didn't know existed, but you may have heard of Max Rebo. Max Rebo is a Star Wars character, but do you know the name of the band that played in that Star Wars cantina scene?

Brian: [00:19:28] I do not.

Phillip: [00:19:29] Which included the star Max Rebo. It's Evar Orbus and His Galactic Jizz Wailers. We're going to need some sort of like warning at the top of this.

Brian: [00:19:43] Probably.

Phillip: [00:19:44] But I don't know why because that's literally the name of what this is.

Brian: [00:19:46] Literally what they call it. Wow. Do you know that band had probably some of my favorite aliens from all of Star Wars? That was like some of their most creative work.

Phillip: [00:19:56] Iconic aliens who just wailed their jizz. Everybody loved it when they did it. Oh, another one of the guys in that band, Droopy McCool. I missed that.

Brian: [00:20:07] Droopy McCool. {laughter} This stuff was just right over kids heads so they could get away with it. It's like all kids movies have some sort of weird...

Phillip: [00:20:16] Can't imagine Droopy without his Jizz. It's so sad. Okay.

Brian: [00:20:22] Jatz now. Droopy with Jatz.

Phillip: [00:20:23] Droopy with no Jatz. Droopy with Jatz. I think they're actually removing the music altogether.

Brian: [00:20:30] Well, this is actually, this gets back to one more thing, which is people are hoarding content that was the originally created content because it is getting removed and pulled out and things are being edited and changed. And there's a whole we've talked about this a lot, but it's just another example. I guarantee you there are a whole host of content hoarders right now that are making sure that they have the original Star Wars.

Phillip: [00:20:56] I love that. I can't get you to say it. I need you to say it. I've been trying so hard.

Brian: [00:21:02] My kids listen to this show, man.

Phillip: [00:21:04] Oh, do they really? Not anymore they don't.

Brian: [00:21:07] They don't.

Phillip: [00:21:08] I think there's a real problem. I think there's a real problem with the nature of the digital media. The digital media. I'm a boomer now. There's a real problem in being able to revise content over time. And you do. It is stoking not just a nostalgia, but a fear of the way that you want to experience something being taken away from you, and your ownership over that experience is also no longer yours. It's someone else's. You are just a licensee. And that is, in the digital media streaming era, you just can't have your Jizz on demand anymore. You have to store it in your closet physically.

Brian: [00:21:54] Yeah. You have to watch out. You might lose it.

Phillip: [00:21:57] There is a dose of reality that we all can experience right now, especially as we don't have VR or AR being as proliferated as it is at this moment. But take a mental picture, take a mental snapshot of the world as it is because it might soon change. Meta just announced a partnership with Ray-Ban or continuing their existing partnership with Ray-Ban to bring affordable glasses to the world that puts AI in your ear and live streaming in your field of view. It's a news story out with a really svelte-looking Mark Zuckerberg giving a presentation about their new Ray-Ban.

Brian: [00:22:40] He was reinvigorated after Threads.

Phillip: [00:22:43] He really was.

Brian: [00:22:44] Gave him an ego boost. It was enough to...

Phillip: [00:22:46] It was the Jujitsu video, post smoking his meats he really bulked up. He looks great.

Brian: [00:22:52] Elon backed out and then Mark was like yeah he chickened out and that's when he was...

Phillip: [00:22:56] From the fight.

Brian: [00:22:57] Yeah, yeah. He's like, yeah, I guess I'll go on commercials now.

Phillip: [00:23:02] Well, Mark is a much more natural actor than one of his other billionaire counterparts. Tim Apple.

Brian: [00:23:10] Apple. Oh, man.

Phillip: [00:23:11] There was a sustainability video that Apple put out where Tim not looking too good, not very natural in his acting abilities. However, Mark Zuckerberg, man, I don't know. I don't know that guy. Very charismatic. He's actually looking really good in this pitch of this new glasses product. Can't wait to see what that's all about. I also, you know, maybe I'm going to start making t shirts. Maybe. Maybe Future Commerce can make some t-shirts that say, "I do not consent to your live stream."

Brian: [00:23:40] Yeah. That could be a problem.

Phillip: [00:23:44] If you are reading this, you agree to a worldwide license for me to not appear in your live stream.

Brian: [00:23:49] If you come into my field of view, you consent to being on my on my live stream.

Phillip: [00:23:57] It's wild the world that we're about to live in. However, I do think this ties into other stories where we're very, very close to a future where AI powers a lot of human interaction in real life. I walk around with AirPods in almost 100% of the time. There's a new story out this week about OpenAI powering ChatGPT with new senses, including video and image sense recognition sense and being able to use video and images in its chat context and then also giving it a voice to be able to respond. And it can listen to voice commands where you can hold a natural conversation. This is in beta at the moment. Will be rolling out slowly to people over the course of the year here as we wind down in 2023.

Brian: [00:26:13] Combine that with the Zuck glasses, things get really interesting because you're you could be looking at something and then ask ChatGPT, "What's going on here?" I mean, think about how this is going to change so many industries. Everything from medical to travel to whatever. I mean, travel guides and tours, you're going to be able to walk up to to any building and and be like, "Give me the history of this building." "Oh, tell me more." "Oh, tell me about that person this is named after." Or who the architect was. It's all going to be right there. And you're going to be able to have a heads-up display that sort of tells you about what happened or there are so many applications for this. And while this isn't necessarily an iPhone moment because I do think this is not going to be adopted, sort of like the iPhone was as who was it was saying, was it Hip City Rag who was saying, "This is not a convergence moment. This is actually a divergent moment," where all kinds of pieces of technology are going to be created around ChatGPT. We're looking at was it Jony Ive's coming back to...

Phillip: [00:27:37] Yeah. Jony Ive is designing or as part of a team that's designing a device for OpenAI.

Brian: [00:27:43] Yeah. So all kinds of interesting gadgets. Actually, one article I read was literally like, I think people are using the word gadget, which actually for me harkens right on back to Norbert Wiener. He talked about the gadget and gadget worship, sort of the gadget worship. Yeah. It's going to take over how we think about the world. Gadgets and machines and AI ultimately are going to get rid of low level decision making and judgment. So it's like, should I turn right or turn left here? AI is going to have a better answer than you are. Should I use this wrench or this wrench? Well, I don't have to know that anymore. AI is just going to tell me that.

Phillip: [00:28:36] I love that those are the two use cases that you come up with. I just want it to remind me who that person's name is at that conference every time I come into contact with them because I can't be seen looking down at their badge. That seems like an obvious use case to me.

Brian: [00:28:52] Yes. Pin whisperer. It's a LinkedIn gadget.

Phillip: [00:28:54] Remember Tony Hale's character on Veep?

Brian: [00:28:58] We've talked about this on the podcast before.

Phillip: [00:29:00] That would have been a very long time ago. But that's what I want. I want my airpod to be in. I want Tony Hale's voice to come in and be like, "That's Alex Greifeld from No Best Practices. She has a newsletter. You're subscribed to it. You like it a lot." That's what I want. {laughter} I want that sort of thing.

Brian: [00:29:20] One time, I totally think I tricked you. I sent you the description of a business, and it was an idea that I had. And you were like, "Is this real?"

Phillip: [00:29:30] Like Butlers R Us?

Brian: [00:29:32] Yeah, maybe. That's just duckbill, by the way. Kirsten Green investment that's just launching. Actually, I just got an invite to it. It's like basically...

Phillip: [00:29:40] Wow. A Lot of non sequiturs there. Come back, come back.

Brian: [00:29:43] But coming back.

Phillip: [00:29:44] You faked me out one time.

Brian: [00:29:45] It was like this idea of just an AI that would constantly be there to help keep you on track. It was back when we were talking about boundaries, but it was like this idea of an AI that was sort of like a constant life coach, helping you make decisions about what was financially smart for you. You go to make a purchase and it's like, "Hey, maybe that's not a good idea."

Phillip: [00:30:10] Bro, I have that. I hear that all the time. I literally hear that all the time. It's in my head already. I don't need technology to give it to me. I ignore that voice. I already do that. I ignore that voice all the time. It's like, "You don't need that." "Yes, I do." Bang, here comes my credit card.

Brian: [00:30:28] I'll find a way to make more money later,

Phillip: [00:30:31] You know what drowns that out? The cha-ching of the cash register.

Brian: [00:30:35] Commerce saves us from AI assistance.

Phillip: [00:30:40] Let's talk a little bit about status and culture. In a world where everybody let's say there is a divergence of this technical capability, this technological capability, and access to it, which I don't know that that's actually what would happen because eventually everybody gets social media. Eventually everybody has a smartphone. That's how the world actually works. But let's follow that thread for a second. Let's say that there are haves and have nots in technology, and the have nots don't have this. I think we might get there with therapeutics. We might get there with gene therapies. There is a scary future where the Elysium happens. And we all have the magic gizmos that do a lot of things for us and a lot of people don't. I think just like we have clown corps and hobo chic and cocaine, the aesthetics of being somebody that doesn't need those sorts of things to have the ability to have phenomenal memory, to have the ability to be unassisted. The unassisted climb to Everest is still a flex. So I think that there is a world where status and culture, especially around elements of commerce, where you can afford to buy something or you can't afford service, quickly resolves itself either through competition, the free market, or through people finding it dramatically uncool to be assisted and just going au naturale. They're going to raw dog every social scenario because that's a big flex.

Brian: [00:32:24] That may be true.

Phillip: [00:32:27] A bigger flex than AirPods.

Brian: [00:32:27] I mean, if you think about Tony Stark still had Jarvis. So even the smartest people...

Phillip: [00:32:35] That wasn't real, Brian.

Brian: [00:32:36] It wasn't real.

Phillip: [00:32:39] They're going to de-Jizz Tony Stark eventually, too. They're going to do it.

Brian: [00:32:44] My point in saying this is, that I think the smartest people will be like, "Look how much more I can do when I have some sort of augment." But yes, I agree with you. They'll probably be like, "I'm so cool. I don't need technology." And in fact, we already see that. That's already happening all over the place.

Phillip: [00:33:00] Yeah. Flip phones. Not having a phone.

Brian: [00:33:03] Let's talk about Elysium for a second as well, because it's interesting. We're talking about divergent tools and we're talking about ecosystems.

Phillip: [00:33:15] Hollowing out the middle class. Yep, got it.

Brian: [00:33:17] But is Costco actually the real super app?

Phillip: [00:33:21] We almost made it through a whole episode. It was wild. I was so excited.

Brian: [00:33:25] We did. There was a tweet recently from, oh, shoot, now I'm forgetting who tweeted it. I'll have to find it. But it was about Costco's recent introduction of healthcare into their stack. And I actually think this is important to talk about because is it going to be technology ecosystems that become our super apps like X is trying to be? And the gizmos that are built...

Phillip: [00:33:59] It's not even in the conversation. It's not even in the cultural conversation. But yeah, Amazon is the super app because they have health care.

Brian: [00:34:05] Or is it commerce companies? Right. Amazon is perhaps the better...

Phillip: [00:34:09] Amazon is there already. You said Costco is some future thing. I mean they do hearing and vision already.

Brian: [00:34:16] Right, right, right. So it's interesting our retailers, are they the ones that are ultimately going to be the ones that need to release tools in this process or partner with tech companies to release tools for their distinct ecosystems? Now, that's I think that's a far-future idea. But the ones that start to think about how to collaborate with technology companies to release bespoke gadgets to assist with their ecosystems might find a competitive edge. That's probably a 5 to 10 year out thing. But I really believe if you're really a far-thinking leader in commerce right now, you should be thinking about how these gadgets are going to roll out and what that means for your ecosystem.

Phillip: [00:35:13] Okay. I like that. I also think there's a... It's so funny. The future never comes about the way that you think it will. I do like renormalizing the word gadget. I like that. I like that. I miss that. Gadgets were always like technology used to be its own little weird subculture. And now everybody's, you know, now is and everything. I do like this idea that there is a new style of technology or a new piece of something that's coming that gets some people really excited and people can nerd out over it. I love that. I kind of miss that in the world. The idea that that like, I'll take the under on in this scenario in that the idea that the gadget is the thing that helps to enable. Because I know someone has to sell it to you. Don't get me wrong. I understand that. I also understand there's probably some subscription component to this. We're going to have one more thing to have to pay for in the world that's going to theoretically make our lives better and us more productive, more happy. I already pay $15 a month to OpenAI. There's likely a future where all of that's true. I also think that we're at a point in our culture and I know not everybody is at this point, but most everybody has to have multiple streams of income in order to be part of the middle class or to ascend, to have some class ascendancy. And there's never been a better time in the world for that to happen with the rise of remote work, on demand, work, gig economy, all of these things are kind of they're all there already to some degree. Just so many of them happen through your smartphone. So maybe the unbundling of the smartphone into more physical devices is what we start to see. Hey, Apple Vision Pro, I think will change everything. I really believe that. I'm starting to really believe that. I think it will change a lot of things. It will change the nature of some types of work. I think it'll change the nature of remote work because having physical hardware devices will be very different as an experience in ten years than it is today. So the nature of remote work, the nature of work and the enterprise altogether, I think those things will be on an accelerated course. And that means that all the things that power that will inform that consumer, which to your point always starts with the knowledge worker. It will begin there, I think. I will buy one the second it comes out. I might even buy one of these meta glasses. I don't know.

Brian: [00:37:51] Yeah. The meta glasses do look interesting at least to try. I kind of want to experience...

Phillip: [00:37:56] I love a gadget. Gadgets are coming back.

Brian: [00:37:59] Yeah, gadgets are coming back. I could see this even in smaller B2B ecosystems.

Phillip: [00:38:05] For sure. Obviously.

Brian: [00:38:07] Yeah, yeah, obviously.

Phillip: [00:38:08] But the commerce implication is not just that you have to buy it, it's that they provide a new platform for customer shopping modality. What is the brand tie-in when you walk into a store and you have your vision goggles on? God, I can't believe I said that out loud. I kind of hate myself for saying it. But what does your digital commerce experience look like when you're in that sort of isolation Zen mode? The reality dial is turned down and you're in this isolated experience. Is that different to the way that your commerce experience is presented when the reality dial is all the way up and you're it's in a physical space that you happen to be in? Are those two different experiences from a shopping perspective? It's probably that, right? There's probably some like... We have a responsive web design. Think reality web design is probably something that's just around the corner but don't know that it's spatial because I don't know that we love spatial commerce for everything either. It is a limiting function to only be able to see what you're physically adjacent to. Being able to search and filter and quickly find things and speak those things out loud... It's really powerful.

Brian: [00:39:26] It is, yeah, definitely. I think it's more powerful even.

Phillip: [00:39:30] Yeah, there's serendipity too, in real life. I don't know. I like dreaming about this stuff, though. I'm glad we saved that to the back half of the show. Only the true fans of Future Commerce get that discourse. Everybody else gets a little bit of Jizz. All right, so anything else, Brian?

Brian: [00:39:46] {laughter} Oh, man. I mean, we hit it all.

Phillip: [00:39:48] We really did and then some. Nothing left to say. Stunned silence. All right, well, thank you for listening to this episode of Future Commerce. If you made it this far. God, congratulations. We will see you at Art Basel, December 6th through 8th. We are coming back to Art Basel, our third year at Art Basel. We have a big event, the only retail and eCommerce centered event for leaders in the eCommerce and retail ecosystems. We are having three action packed days. We've got workshops, we've got our brand new Muses Journal, we've got an incredible collection of artists that have a strong tie in to this story, this idea that brands create things that inspire us to create in response. The world is changing and we are going to tell you just how it's changing at Muses, A New Future Commerce Experience. It's at Art Basel, December 6th through 8th. Come and join us and you can register. Get on our Muses mail so you can get our text messages and our physical mail. We're going to drop something in the mail to you guys, but we'd love to see you in person. You can get all of that. FutureCommerce.com/Muses. And you can find more episodes of this podcast on all Future Commerce properties at FutureCommerce.com. And with that, thanks for listening.