How Knix Leverages Authenticity in a Post-DTC World

[00:01:37] Elizabeth: Hi. Thanks for joining the Future Commerce podcast. Today, we are joined by Nicole Tapscott, Chief Commercial Officer at Knix. And I'm your host, Elizabeth Schmidt. Nicole, thank you so much for joining today.

[00:01:50] Nicole: Oh, it's my pleasure. I'm really happy to be here.

[00:01:52] Elizabeth: We're so excited to have you, especially just to hear about all the exciting things going on at Knix. So to kick things off, I'd love to hear just a little bit about how you got here. What led you to joining Knix?

[00:02:05] Nicole: This is a great question. So I actually have worked in kind of the high growth consumer facing brand space for about twenty years in different capacities. I've always really been drawn to kind of that building founder mentality, and really brands with purpose. So when I started my career back in the day at Accenture, and of course, I'm going to take you back in time.

[00:02:31] Elizabeth: Love it.

[00:02:32] Nicole: I'm going to take you back to 2006. Facebook had no mini feed. Everyone was obsessed with your wall and your widgets. And I started my career actually being a very precocious kind of 22 year old and pitching a bunch of ideas to another partner. Jason Buechel is actually now, he is CEO of Whole Foods or I guess SVP of Grocery at Amazon now. And he like took a flyer on me. He was like, "All right, little kid, come aboard. Let's go and see like what you got." And so we spent a lot of time with different retailers in The US kind of pitching these new business ideas around how to engage new media and social collaborative platforms to engage consumers, new audiences, and employees alike. And through that, I got to sell like a few different business ideas, which was really exciting for a newcomer. But from that, what I uncovered is just this like deep love of community engagement and deep love of brand storytelling, which took me to the World Economic Forum in Switzerland. So 2008 rolls through and a lot of the new business projects I was working on, of course, were all killed because it was 2008 and companies were really focusing on these very narrow kind of scopes of work. And I was invited to run a workshop at the World Economic Forum in Geneva in Switzerland for Klaus Schwab. After that workshop, he invited me and another woman who I had gone over there with to actually work there. So we moved to Switzerland and built kind of the first collaborative platforms that the World Economic Forum had.

[00:04:11] Elizabeth: Wow.

[00:04:11] Nicole: And helped build out their ecosystem of brands like Facebook and Google and these brands that are now obviously mainstay in society, but really get them more involved and really help get kind of the general public involved in the mission of the World Economic Forum, which at the time was, or still is, improving the state of the world. But what that really showed me was that I loved building businesses inside of existing businesses. I wanted to take my hand at actually like building something more from the ground up. So after I was at business school, I went and worked at a couple of amazing brands. I worked at Casper for a few years when that company was kind of sub 100,000,000 all the way to IPO, Mejuri for four years as Chief Marketing Officer, and now Knix, where I loved taking these businesses where they kind of have a proven product market fit, but they were looking for that tremendous scale up opportunity. And now I've kind of done that a few times, and I've been so, so fortunate in the founders I've gotten to work for and the people I've been able to work with over the last decade or so, and really being a part of some amazing brand stories.

[00:05:23] Elizabeth: What an incredible journey.

[00:05:25] Nicole: Yeah, thank you. I feel really lucky. It's like, I pinch myself sometimes. Although Joanna Griffiths, who's the President and Founder of Knix, she's my fifth founder I've ever worked directly for. And you know, when I tell people that they think I've completely lost it, but I love founders. So I can't quit them.

[00:05:41] Elizabeth: Yeah. Yeah. Well, you've clearly found your niche of what really inspires you and allows you to take these unique brands and kind of mold them and grow them. And so that's really exciting. I'd love to chat for a second about next gen brands versus direct to consumer brands. So to consumer you've been pretty vocal about this distinction between next gen and DTC. What does this evolution mean for commerce in your eyes?

[00:06:12] Nicole: So I think it's always interesting when we talk about DTC as if it's like just a recent phenomenon. DTC effectively, you know, it's an acronym, it means direct to consumer. The idea of selling like direct to your customers is not new. It's kind of as old as commerce itself. Whether or not it was the milkman coming to your door, traveling salesman selling you a vacuum, or if we go much further back in time, when there were always opportunities for people selling directly to the end customer and bringing the product to them. I think what's changed in the last kind of twenty five years or so is that there is no more kind of friction. And so what made it really hard to scale those businesses sixty or seventy years ago was the amount of friction and cost it would take to actually rev up and scale that kind of business. But now with technology, global shipping, social media, it's removed a lot of that friction. So any business can effectively ask access like direct to consumer. Do you know what I mean?

[00:07:20] Elizabeth: Mmm hmm. Yeah.

[00:07:21] Nicole: So if we fast forward to kind of the early days of ecommerce, and suddenly like any entrepreneur could reach a customer anywhere in the world at a relatively low capital and high scale, that's what really drove this modern DTC. It was those early adopters leveraging the internet to bypass traditional gatekeepers, like retailers effectively. That's when we heard a lot of the language, which I'm sure you and I are closer in age, "cutting out the middleman," "we've taken down the margin," "we're selling direct to you." And you saw a lot of businesses like Casper as an example, who was able to effectively do that, or Warby Parker as another example. And at the time media costs were really low, so it was an efficient way to grow a business. I think what we've seen now is there's two major changes. You know, DTC is no longer a differentiator. It's like, it's just table stakes, right? And these brands are no longer defined by how they sell their product, but why they sell, and how they integrate into a customer's life. And so when I talk about next gen brands, I'm thinking more of like channel agnostic. You go where the best channel is for the customer and what they're looking for. And this notion of whether or not it's DTC or elsewhere is much more blurred, where consumers may really wanna go to a store, which is great, or they may wanna buy directly online from you, which is also wonderful. They may wanna buy from a store from you. They might wanna buy through TikTok shop, through like an influencer and shop through that kind of discovery channel. And it's the responsibility of the retailer to be where that customer is by really listening to what they want and when they want it and how they want it. And that's kind of the distinction I think that exists now between these kinds of more the nuts and bolts of DTC versus the nature of next gen consumerism.

[00:09:27] Elizabeth: Yeah. And culture plays such an important role in all of that, both on the side of how brands are reaching consumers and what narratives and stories they tell to do so and how they're even responding and reacting. Then also how customers are engaging with brands. The traditional funnel is gone. Things are no longer linear. It's a total loyalty loop. It's the McKinsey Loyalty Loop that we're seeing. {laughter} So it's fascinating.

[00:09:57] Nicole: Right. If we're direct about it, it's also a function of how expensive it is now to run an only DTC business versus then. Fifteen years ago, Meta was in a way like a lottery machine. Was like $1 in, $10 out, $1 in, $10 out. And that doesn't exist anymore. There's way more competitors in the space buying media. It's much harder to target people, rightfully so, because of like higher privacy standards. And it's no longer that cutting out the middleman isn't as necessarily as appealing as it might've been then because the cost of acquisition is so much higher now for direct to consumer businesses, versus actually passing along the margin to a wholesaler, to a retail partner who has great brand mission alignment with you, and has a customer base that you're interested in tapping into, and is investing in storytelling and brand storytelling, or working with like a network of influencers, and trying to get your product out that way, and selling more through Instagram Shop, or TikTok Shop, or other means. So it's not as, there's lot of elements that have kind of changed the nature of DTC. I think the biggest and most important component of it is the customer's preference, but there is of course the undercurrent of the cost associated with actually operating only a direct to consumer business.

[00:11:20] Elizabeth: Yeah. That's a really good point. And even just talking about the changes on Meta from then to now, and yes, of course, there's so many brands that still advertise across these Meta in general, you know, Facebook and Instagram because they feel like they have to. But we're also seeing a lot of brands take really unique risks with their media dollars, especially even shifting to experiential and doing more in person initiatives to have that closer touch with consumers.

[00:11:51] Nicole: Yes.

[00:11:51] Elizabeth: Even if it's on a smaller level, it's so much more personal, and that's how you really, seemingly, can maintain loyalty. So the shift is really interesting and that's the thing that I think will see a lot of changes.

[00:12:04] Nicole: Definitely. I think people are much more interested more so than ever in engaging in authentic brand experiences. You know, it's not just the experiential activation for the sake of something fun, but does it feel deeply rooted to like what you believe in? Is it tied back to the kind of media or messaging or contributions that you as a brand or a business make outside of that moment? Or does it feel super random? And I think customers, rightfully so, are much more discerning, and they're smart. They're smart. They can sniff it out if it feels inauthentic. One element like we recently launched, as you're aware, the You're Good campaign with Kristen Bell.

[00:12:48] Elizabeth: Yes.

[00:12:49] Nicole: Thank you. Yes, we're very excited about that. We want to tell this amazing story about how leak proof has become more mainstay and now is used by 38% of women as a form of protection across The United States. Like 38%, that's massive. It is growing double digits year over year versus like tampons and pads are shrinking as a business. And so I think what's fascinating about that is when we were talking about this campaign, like we want to tell this really compelling story. We have this insight that every woman, every woman when surveyed has experienced sitting down for a long time on an airplane or at a restaurant or for dinner, and they stand up and they're like, "Oh, shoot." And they lean over to their girlfriend or their colleague, and they're like, "Can you check me?" And you're just waiting for those two special words, "You're good." And so when we loved this idea, and Kristen was like, it's very rare, right, that you put someone like on your vision board, and then it works out. On your campaign, you're like, "Oh, this is what the campaign could be. Imagine we could use Kristen Bell," and then you actually get her.

[00:13:58] Elizabeth: I mean manifesting.

[00:14:00] Nicole: Exactly. Am I that powerful? I just might be. And so when we reached out to her, we already knew that she was a fan because she had commented and shared our previous campaigns. But what we didn't know is that she was a customer. And so she had used Knix. She literally had used Knix for a decade. On the shoot, she said to Joanna, she was like, "Just taking off my Knix to put on more Knix." It was just like that, you know, that much integrated in her life. And she commented that she wore them a lot on, Nobody Wants This, and specific dresses. She was like, "When I was wearing that dress, was wearing my Knix." And so it's just, it was really organic and authentic.

[00:14:40] Elizabeth: Wow. Yeah.

[00:14:40] Nicole: And I think that's why the campaign is really resonating with people is because it's a real relationship. It's just not like a face to a brand. It's someone who loves the brand.

[00:14:51] Elizabeth: And people can feel that.

[00:14:52] Nicole: There's so much content in the world now, and things are in and out in a flash of a pan, and you just hope that you launch meaningful messages that feel really authentic to your brand that resonate with your current customer and reach a new audience who hasn't considered, or was in the consideration set, and now can be like really encouraged, and it makes people smile, and it makes people feel like the insight is true, and that it sticks with them. The best campaigns are based on a true insight and great representation, whether or not it's a celebrity or your community or ambassadors or whomever it is, but someone that really represents that message in a real authentic way.

[00:16:40] Elizabeth: Establishing that emotional connection where consumers can relate to what's going on is what sustains a campaign and keeps people talking about it.

[00:16:53] Nicole: Yes. That's absolutely right.

[00:16:55] Elizabeth: That's really exciting. You touched on a bit of a subject. I mean, even just the brand in general exists in a world where there should continue to be an active destigmatization happening within this type of product. I'd love to hear from you just a little bit about how Knix in general is approaching destigmatizing your product and just taking intimate apparel from taboo to mainstream? What does this look like through community and commerce for you?

[00:17:27] Nicole: Yeah, I think, I have been so unbelievably fortunate in working for brands that have really strong senses of missions. At Mejuri, it was effectively buy yourself the damn diamond, changing the nature of who buys whom jewelry, celebrate all your own milestones. At the World Economic Forum, it was improving the state of the world, like lofty. Casper was imagine the potential of a well rested world. And at Knix, it's to empower our community to live unapologetically free. And what's really amazing about every place that I've worked at that I honestly, every time I step out of the business, you're reminded how special that moment in time actually was. It's hard to see what you're in when you're in it. I'm sure you can relate. It's hard to notice the impact you're having, not you as an individual, but as a brand, you're having on conversation or on movement of a topic when you're in it, when you're like in it every day. And you can't see the progress that's being made on the topic. And I think with Knix, ten years ago, there really wasn't... I guess Knix is 12 years old. Twelve years ago, there was no conversation around leak proof or leaks in mainstream conversations. Knix invented the category of leak proof. And when we think about where we're trying to create the most change, we always talk about it in the same ways where we always talk about breaking down barriers, using product as a catalyst for change, real change, and collaborating with our community. And so to your question around how do we go about it, everything we do has to touch some element of those three pillars. So when we talk about breaking down barriers, last year we a really exciting, I'm sure you would have seen this, but a really exciting campaign with Megan Rapinoe, former captain of the US women's soccer team, super outspoken around women in sports and girls in sports. And the campaign was called Sport Your Period. And it was based on the insight that one out of two girls drops out of sport because of an issue with their period. And part of it is the fact that don't want to talk about their periods with their coaches, or they're worried about leakage. They're worried about talking about it with their own teammates. And so what we really wanted to do is to destigmatize the conversation around periods in sports. A great example of this is Wimbledon. It wasn't until like five years ago or ten maybe less, where Wimbledon actually allowed women to wear non white shorts under their tennis skirts. We're talking about like recent recent changes to things that should just be deemed normal. So we did a survey. Sorry, the story is a bit long winded.

[00:20:31] Elizabeth: No, I love it.

[00:20:32] Nicole: We did survey of professional athletes who were headed to the Olympics and we said, "Are you gonna compete on your period during the Olympics?" And about like 95% of them said yes. And so you have all these professional athletes who are going to compete on their periods, many of whom said that they have experienced period related issues while competing or felt uncomfortable talking about their periods in sports, but who felt that that was wrong and wanted to make a difference. So the campaign we ran around Sport Your Period, the idea was we would pay athletes to talk about their periods, and any professional athlete. So Megan, we put together a great sixty second spot, and Megan was the lead on that. And it was probably one of our most successful brand moments ever from a conversation cut through perspective. We had heaps of athletes at the Olympics in professional sports, all participating, talking about their periods on Instagram, and really changing the nature of the conversation. That campaign was nominated for a Cannes Lion. We didn't win, but we were robbed, but it's fine.

[00:21:47] Elizabeth: {laughter}

[00:21:47] Nicole: But the idea there is around barrier breakers. So we're going to continue to push the envelope every year, every day around conversations that people don't want to have.

[00:21:56] Elizabeth: Yeah.

[00:21:56] Nicole: And we're going to do it in really  meaningful ways that reach the person who with whom we're trying to reach. So that's just on the barrier breaking side. On the product as a catalyst for change, the mission being empowering our community to live unapologetically free is largely rooted in product. So it's rooted in you, Elizabeth, being able to go like, I don't know, what sports do you do? What are your activities? Tell me.

[00:22:23] Elizabeth: Pilates. Yoga.

[00:22:26] Nicole: Yeah. Perfect. Being able to do all those things and not worrying about sweat or like, you know, if you peed in your pants a little bit doing like big reaches, it happens. It's actually one of our headlines in our campaign. No one can tell you peed a little bit. Leak proof means you're good. And that's the nature of product is a catalyst for change.

[00:22:46] Elizabeth: Yeah.

[00:22:46] Nicole: It's like, you should be able to live your life exactly as you want without your period or light incontinence or sweat or anything holding you back.

[00:22:55] Elizabeth: Yeah.

[00:22:56] Nicole: So I think that those are two huge ways at which we're doing it, and we're constantly, constantly innovating in product. No one does leak proof like Knix does leak proof. You can go bud and buy a pair of leak proof underwear for $5 or $10. It's gonna leak. You're gonna feel like you're wearing a diaper. It's not gonna feel good. We don't believe there's a reason why you have to feel unsexy and like you're wearing a diaper just because you have your period or just because you recently were postpartum. You should be able to wear what you want to wear, live your life and feel like 100% your underwear's got your back no matter what.

[00:23:32] Elizabeth: Love that. I was just going to tell you for a moment, Nicole, that it's so clear how passionate you are about this mission behind Knix and really what you're able to offer the community. And that's something that people can feel, you know, that level of authenticity, that level of care of you're helping to shift perception, perspectives, making people feel like they're supported. These are all things that drive lifetime loyalty. And not to tie it back to business growth or brand growth, but frankly, that's why we're here. Right? {laughter} So it's so exciting to hear just yet another story about a brand that has purpose and it's very evident across Knix. So thank you for sharing all of this with us.

[00:24:26] Nicole: Oh my gosh. It's really my pleasure. As I mentioned, I think that these brands that are gonna last and stand the test of time are the ones that keep that through line.

[00:24:39] Elizabeth: Absolutely.

[00:24:40] Nicole: Also we're constantly listening to their customer as well. Because sometimes things evolve and you want to stay on top up to date. You know, I think even at when I was at Mejuri, we often talked about like, "Did we do it? Are people good buying themselves the damn diamond?" But truthfully, we had just, in our ecosystem, our self reinforcing like echo chamber, sure, we had done it, you know, like everyone we knew was doing it, but still proportionally as a portion of total jewelry sold, there was still so much space at which to tell that story and to show people that jewelry doesn't just have to be for a special occasion, and you don't have to just buy yourself costume jewelry, you can buy yourself fine jewelry and celebrate all of your life's like little and big milestones. So there's still so much work for Knix to do, but I'm so proud of the work that the business has done in truly like opening up conversations that had yet to be kind of discussed until they were exposed through the kind of Knix umbrella.

[00:27:45] Elizabeth: I'm curious just hearing about how active you are in listening to your customers, what were some surprises that occurred? Or even have there ever been moments where a customer suggested something that you were able to actually apply to the brand? Almost like you're co creating with your customers or something that we like to call the multiplayer brand.

[00:28:10] Nicole: Yeah, I mean, I think within Knix, a lot of our best product ideas are from customer feedback.

[00:28:16] Elizabeth: I love that.

[00:28:16] Nicole: So when we created our new, last year we launched our ultra thin, which honestly has the same absorbency as some of our heaviest absorbencies, but it's much more thin. That was from the feedback of everybody wanted thinner, better product, and we were constantly investing in that space, but we made the gusset a little bit longer, we provided more coverage. We also recently launched the same technology, but in cotton, because there was a huge interest in providing more natural fabrics and fibers. Last week we launched a collection called The Natural World, which is all natural fibers. It's Modal or cotton, and it's to address the interest and needs of customers who have told us that. So I think a lot of our product, and we actually have a couple of more products coming out this fall, which I can't speak to, but that are like as a direct result of the things that we've been hearing from our customers themselves. That's on the product side. I think some of the more rewarding pieces are when you hear from... I remember when I was at even Mejuri, we would ask like, "Oh, why did you get your first piece of jewelry?" As an example. And we'd hear from people, "It was when I graduated from college. I put myself through college, and I'm the first person in my family to graduate." It's, "I'm celebrating that finally I'm getting divorced." Big and small things. "I survived the pandemic with my mental health." Big and little things for people where you feel like the thing you were trying to do is the thing you're hearing from customers, where they actually are behaving in the way or engaging with the product in the way that you had kind of hoped they would be inspired to.

[00:30:14] Elizabeth: Yeah.

[00:30:15] Nicole: And it's not about the revenue, but it's just about you set yourself out on this mission and when people join you on it, you're like, "Oh my gosh, it's really working. People see it," you know? That's particularly fulfilling. On the Knix side, there's been so many campaigns that I wasn't a part of because they were pre my time here, but that I was so impressed by. Knix was one of the first big brands to really talk about perimenopause eighteen months ago, and now it feels like it could just be the algorithm.

[00:30:51] Elizabeth: {laughter}

[00:30:51] Nicole: It might be the algorithm. {laughter} But it feels like all I see is perimenopause content. And so I think that that was a really compelling campaign. Our Life After Birth that, you know, Knix published a book and did an artistic series that showcased the beautiful and messy moments of postpartum. And this was like eight years ago or nine years ago. And so we do these things, and the purpose of them, the way that we measure their success is by how much do people engage and resonate with the content. And they're not revenue driving things at all. You could probably put a lot more money into revenue driving things, not a perimenopause, huge multifaceted television spot. That's not going to make you all the money, but it speaks to the customer and it lets them know that we're on their side and we see them and we understand what they're actually going through. I think it's without being heavy handed. It's just like we're, it's like literally such an honor to have a consumer group and a community that's like interested in engaging in that conversation with us.

[00:32:00] Elizabeth: Absolutely. So you've expanded Knix into Holt Renfrew.

[00:32:06] Nicole: Yes.

[00:32:06] Elizabeth: While maintaining brand authenticity. I'd love to hear from you. I'd love to talk a little bit about how you navigate premium type partnerships without losing the brand's core identity and reason for being, which you've already spoken so much about.

[00:32:22] Nicole: Yeah. So partnering with Holt was really a seamless choice for us because they're really well known, another a really well known Canadian brand that we really love and respect. And Holt Renfrew at the end of the day has like a really deep commitment to quality and to innovation in fashion. And so any partnership that we do, we always try to ensure that who we are working with works with our mission of empowering our customers. So when we went into Holt they were really interested in us around our swim collection. That really quickly expanded to include leak proof and bras because obviously that's what we're most well known for. And we put our product as is, into Holt Renfrew. We didn't create like a specialty collection or anything for them that was more premium. It was exactly what we sell on our website at the exact same price points. But it was a really curated assortment for that more fashion forward kind of customer. So I think for us, it's like, does the partner align with our brand mission and our brand values? Do we have a product that's gonna service the need of the customer that's going to shop there? And does it help us kind of put forward what we do best as a business? And in the instance of Holt, it did kind of all three of those pieces in a really, really wonderful way. Actually, Elizabeth, where are you based?

[00:33:57] Elizabeth: I'm based in Chicago.

[00:33:58] Nicole: You're in Chicago. Okay. So the other part as well is people need these products. So we want to also get them in front of them where they like to shop for them. There's not a tremendous volume of places across the country that sell intimates and swim. Holt is like a natural kind of premium destination for us as a partner that we would want to work with and work with closely. And we're so excited about it. We were really excited about that and it was a really successful partnership for both brands.

[00:34:36] Elizabeth: That's great. It definitely, I mean, we're seeing physical retail having a moment.

[00:34:42] Nicole: Yeah.

[00:34:43] Elizabeth: You know? And your Queen Street flagship renovation, five new stores planned.

[00:34:50] Nicole: Yes.

[00:34:51] Elizabeth: So talk to us about what role tactile experience plays in the intimates category and for Knix specifically.

[00:34:59] Nicole: Our stores are just like little jewel boxes of great shopping experiences, honestly. The people that work there are so thoughtful and so caring towards customers who come in. They're gonna make you like, you gotta go to our store. You will come out of there having like the cutest workout outfit for your yoga, the best assortment of leak proof underwear, a bra that actually fits, and someone will really either spend the time with you as fast or slow as you want to do it. You want in and out in five minutes, they're there for you. If you want to really take your time, get properly measured, talk about, not you, but if one has an issue, like a personal issue that they want to talk about, that they want to understand what product is best for that situation that they're going through, then you can have those moments. And because our product is one that is something that people do like to touch and feel, retail has become a real cornerstone of how we actually position ourselves in the market. So we see it as an opportunity for the whole team to really have these IRL touch points with our stores and with experiences for customers. So when people do come in, the space is designed to be intimate and welcoming, so that if people are shopping for intimates and they do have a personal thing they want to talk about, there's spaces to have those conversations. But they're also just like fun shopping experiences. And they're great places for us to host events and bring our community together, which is like a super important part of what our stores are designed to do. So we are going to continue, you're going to see us continue to open a lot more stores over the next couple of years, which is super exciting.

[00:36:46] Elizabeth: That's really exciting. It makes me just think about how smart that is to be able to have a physical space where almost like you're designing these vulnerability corners where people feel comfortable to be able to have those conversations. And even the fact that you're thinking about that just goes to show the kind of care and thoughtfulness that you're putting into the design of these retail spaces, which frankly not every brand is doing. They're more excited about maybe the the clout of, you know, whatever influencer might have founded the brand or the cool factor of shopping somewhere as opposed to why people might be deciding to purchase these things and how we wanna make them feel when they go through the store experience and how we want them to feel when they leave the store. And so it's really clear how much Knix cares.

[00:37:39] Nicole: Yeah. I'm glad that you recognize that. And if you haven't been to our store, our New York store opens on Friday. And I think that that's a super unique part of being in the apparel and retail game when you're also servicing a need that is something that people may not be like super comfortable talking about. Because we sell heaps of like fashion product, right? Like really cute, cool looks that you'd want to wear playing tennis and all sorts of stuff. But if a new mom comes in and she's suffering with light incontinence or heavier incontinence or bleeding or whatever, or needs a better sized nursing bra and didn't realize she was gonna be leaking all the time, like she needs pads, she wants to talk to somebody. Our staff are trained for those kinds of like intimate conversations with people so that they can have them and you don't feel like you're just like bustled about in the store. And that's not everybody who comes in, but it is a portion of the people who come in and we want to be prepared for those kinds of conversations.

[00:38:48] Elizabeth: That's really great. So, about the New York store. Let's chat about it. Tell us about the strategy behind the opening, like the timing, the location, what cultural factors even has Knix taken into consideration when expanding its brick and mortar footprint?

[00:39:06] Nicole: Yeah. So we're so excited to open our first store in New York. It's at Lafayette and Spring in SoHo. So go and check it out. The New York City listeners, please. And overall, this store really supports our wider retail expansion goals with really honestly very ambitious goals for US growth. We have a heap of store openings continuing on for Canada and into 2026. But this New York store is really our big first kind of foray into the physical retail experience in The US and in New York City. And New York right now remains one of our top, if not our top, kind of geography in terms of customers, customer engagement, our followers on social. And so we know we have like a very kind of like dedicated clientele of people in New York who already love and know the brand. But obviously proportionally to the size of New York City, we think that that just illustrates like seeds of growth and opportunity there. So we knew we wanted to be in SoHo. We also did a lot of research around using both external and internal data to kind of triangulate on where the right names were, where we had good penetration already, but where we thought that there was more room to grow. And then we wanted to be in New York as soon as possible, because it's just like, we know that there's expansion opportunity there and before the kind of half of the year. We're going into Super Bowl season of retail, which is Q4. So we really wanted to do our best to establish an awesome community and an awesome shopping destination prior to those kinds of peak periods, which is why we are launching it now. In addition, of course, we have the You're Good campaign that's going live, so it's a great one two punch around brand storytelling, putting a great face forward into kind of normalization of leak proof underwear using Kristen, as well as the store openings. So the feeling is like, you see the campaign, you see it on social, you hear about it from a friend, you read about it in the paper, you go on the website, but maybe you never heard about the business before, but then all of sudden you're walking down the street and you're like, "Wait a minute, I just read about this store. I just read about this company. I'm going to go in there." And so it provides that, again, that kind of like be where the customer wants you to be. Sometimes people want to physically be in the stores and experience the stores and see and feel that underwear. There's something around seeing is believing, especially when it comes to things like leak proof where the perceived cost of failure is so high, which is why we really believe in that kind of retail experience. People can be like, "Oh my gosh, it is very thin and it absorbs this much. Wow, can you talk to me about that?" We don't want to send anyone out into the world worried that the product's not going to work for them.

[00:42:17] Elizabeth: Yeah. It's really great to hear you talk about just the one two punch, especially because what you're really doing is investing in both brand building, brand equity, the marketing component. And when both of those are invested in, especially when both of those hit simultaneously, it presents such a strong campaign approach. And these are the things that we tend to see brands doing that expect to see success in the long term. So it's encouraging as just a great example of how to do it.

[00:42:55] Nicole: Yeah. Well, you know, we'll let you know if it works.

[00:42:57] Elizabeth: I have faith.

[00:43:00] Nicole: I think it will. Based on the early response to the Kristen campaigns and everything, I think it's to be highly impactful. The Knix brand is a lot of fun. And so I think when we host all of our kind of launch events, I think people are going to see that as well.

[00:43:14] Elizabeth: Yeah. And you've also mentioned, especially just talking about meeting customers where they actually want to consume, whether it's TikTok Shop, Nordstrom, direct site... So talk about how you orchestrate that complexity into the seamless Knix brand experience.

[00:43:34] Nicole: Yeah. I think again, it all comes back down to the mission and making sure that you hold really true. And that mission can come to life in many different layers of the onion. It doesn't have to be so heavy handed, doesn't have to be so serious all the time. Sometimes it's fun, sometimes it's silly, sometimes it's taboo breaking, sometimes it's like a big old, when we did our swim campaign launch last year, we did a posing workshop with Lauren Chan who's like one of the supermodels from Sports Illustrated, where she like just taught people how to pose in their swimsuits on the beach, like in fun, flirty, kind of like silly ways. And I think it all comes down to that mission and having a clear kind of intention for the choices that you're making. In my mind, if you're discovering the brand, discovery is super social now. It feels very personalized. It feels very immersive. And so wherever you are, there has to be some through line that ties to your mission, but you still can be where that person is in what they're looking for at that moment in time. It can still be presented to them by a person or a retailer that they know and trust, or it can be presented in a social channel where they source and discover. And so I think the distribution of that content has to be personalized and the content should be meeting people with the kind of needs that they're looking to address, whether or not it's like a postpartum need or an everyday need or an endometriosis need or, you know, big boobs, small boobs, extra large boobs, like whichever it is, everybody has their own unique moments. And so I think what we're trying to do is ensure that the way at which people discover our brand feels very personalized, clear, thoughtful, and intentional. And that comes from having a very clear sense of what the mission of the business is and ensuring that everyone who creates content for our business or everyone who touches the customer from our business is also living by that mission statement.

[00:45:41] Elizabeth: Yeah. It sounds like data has to play a really significant role as well.

[00:45:46] Nicole: Yes.

[00:45:46] Elizabeth: In order for you to be able to successfully do that.

[00:45:49] Nicole: Yeah. It certainly, certainly does. It certainly does. And we use data in really kind of like interesting and meaningful ways now just around like how people discover the brand, what they like to buy first, what they're interested in exploring next, and trying to get them the things that they actually want to see versus just like bombarding them with a lot of messages all the time.

[00:46:11] Elizabeth: Yeah. Well, also, you know, data analysis oftentimes leads to trend forecasting as well because you start to see patterns. So in looking ahead, what trends and whether it's from data or just, you know, things that you're noticing in the market, especially for Knix, what trends do you believe will shape how consumers discover and engage with brands over the next few years? And whether that's through Knix or just brands in general. Curious to hear your thoughts.

[00:46:40] Nicole: Yeah. You know, I always am like a little bit careful around brand, like trend forecasting just because you never know which way the cookie is going to crumble. It's like every day there's a new trend that kind of emerges. However, I think that what we're gonna see is this continued interest and focus on... Not interest and focus, but almost like table stakes around brand authenticity. And so I think the customer is smarter than ever. They have access to more tools than they ever have before in understanding if your product is good, if your brand is well liked, how to return it if they don't like it. They're more empowered and powerful than they ever have been before, and they're more discerning. And I think in addition to that, people are also under, the last couple of years have been under like a tremendous amount of financial strain, and businesses have to work a lot harder for your dollars. So I think brands that are authentic and lead with really clear intention and consistency are going to be the ones that are going to win. The thing I've noticed is like post, and we're talking, I mean, not to mention COVID, but like post COVID, during COVID, it was easy to be like a DTC brand in a weird way. It was because everybody was shopping online. And so not easy because it wasn't easy, but people were shopping online, that was their main source of consumerism. And let's say they had a $100 in their wallet, a $100 was being spent on the internet. Post COVID, they had a $100 in their wallet and $50 or $40 dollars was being spent online, $20 was being spent in store, and $30 was spent on experiences. Then inflation hits you and your $100 are now worth $80 so you can't actually get as much and the distribution and ratio is still the same. And then, you know, interest rates are super high, so now your normal cost of living is higher. So cost of living is taking up a bigger portion of your $100 than ever before, which is now $80. And so customers are going to be smarter with where they spend their money, but they're also going to want to spend it on experiences and brands that bring them either purpose, joy, happiness, or deliver to a value that is meaningful to them. Superfluous purchases, unless they have clear intention, will be tougher to sell. So I think that those are not necessarily a trend, but I think that is the behavior and the demand that these really smart and capable customers are gonna place on businesses, and then businesses have to rise to meet them. Your product has to be better than ever. You got to have a clear sense of brand purchase. You have to use data in ways that reach your customer in ways that they want to be spoken to. You have to be using AI and other elements to effectively enter into their new way of discovering and discovery. You have to lead with authentic purpose and intention. And I think those will be the brands that will win.

[00:50:02] Elizabeth: Well said. Absolutely. I agree. I really hope that brands take that approach. And we see more brands that are really thinking about how they engage with customers and thinking about the kinds of purpose driven leadership, really, that they can evolve over time in new ways of reaching folks. There's huge opportunities. And we're seeing just so many things happen in the world that is awful and unfortunate. A lot of times consumers look to brands as a beacon of hope because they do still want to engage and feel like they're supported and feel like this brand has their intentions in mind. And so, yeah, I completely agree. For other marketers looking to redefine entire categories like you have with Knix, what's your playbook for turning cultural barriers into competitive advantages? What tips do you have?

[00:51:16] Nicole: Okay, well, is, you know, I'll be like as vaguely specific as I can here because I think it depends. But I think what it comes down to is always listening to your customer, always hearing what they care about, what they like and don't like about your product or your service. We have a value at Knix which is like listen to the customer. They're usually telling you the answer. And I think that's a big one. What do they care about? There is a saying that founders are micro pessimists, macro optimists. It's not my saying, but I believe it's true. The founder mentality is like, we could do 10 things better today. We can just keep doing better. We can do better. But tomorrow we're going to be like a billion dollar business. The grind that's required to keep pushing the envelope on the thing that you truly believe in is not for everybody, but it is like a really exciting challenge that you can dig your teeth into to try and strive for best in kind of like any element that you do. And then on the marketing side, I think the most important thing is knowing where your customers are and who they care about and what they care about. So if that is via using TikTok as like your fitting room, then that's where you need to be if that's where your customer is. If it's everybody's now switching from using Google to using ChatGPT as the source and you're a travel business, then you better make sure that you're addressing the fact that that's where people are now doing their research and their travel and their trip planning and how do you integrate. The if you build it, they will come mentality of former businesses does not work. You actually have to build it where they want it. And so I think that as a marketer, it's a very, it's a classic kind of opportunity that's existed forever, except now it's just in many places, in kind of the long tail versus just in a couple of big moments. And so I think that that consistency and being where people actually want you is a huge component of the unlock.

[00:53:36] Elizabeth: That makes so much sense. If you build it, how do you get them to care? And if you build it, you should be building it with them too.

[00:53:44] Nicole: Yeah.

[00:53:44] Elizabeth: That's almost like how to guarantee that it's going to hit, that they're going to care. I love that. Well said. Well, thank you so much for joining. It was an absolute pleasure have you. This was so wonderful chatting. I really appreciate just all of your insights and just giving us a lot of backstory on Knix, backstory about your career, and really the importance of a purpose driven brand. It's really exciting to hear that that Knix falls under this category and is continuing to see success in that regard.

[00:54:15] Nicole: Thank you. And thank you for having me. I hope it was interesting to your listeners.

[00:54:18] Elizabeth: Absolutely. Absolutely. Thanks for watching Future Commerce. If this conversation sparked something for you, like, subscribe, and follow wherever you get your podcasts. It helps more people join the conversation. And if you wanna bring Future Commerce into your world, check out our print shop at store.futurecommerce.com, where commerce meets culture in beautifully crafted journals, zines, and much more. Remember, commerce shapes the future because commerce is culture. We'll see you next time.

‍