Phillip: Welcome back to Step by Step, a podcast by Future Commerce presented in part this season with our partnership with Temu. I'm Phillip.

Alicia: And I'm Alicia.

Phillip: And this our 16th season of Step by Step. This episode two of three. If you just started here in the middle, welcome. But I think you're going to get the absolute best experience if you take it all in from the very beginning. You might want to go back to our very first episode where we kicked off this series. So why don't you head back, listen to episode one, then come back and check this one out. We are glad to have you here. This season, we're listening to the stories of three very real businesses who've had very real success on Temu with a growth partner in a brand new channel where they're finding incremental growth, even though they've had success in other channels with their businesses. Temu has been a partner to help them find new success. And these are all US-based businesses that are growing on this marketplace that they just launched here, many of them within the last few months. Today, we are checking in with a new business called Shop Succulents. And, you know, Alicia, in episode one, we explored steady growth, intuitive expansion, small steps to big results. Episode two is a little bit of a different take. What are we sort of getting into today?

Alicia: So there are components of this logistical experience that connect to brand credibility. So if that fulfillment journey is not seamless and, you know, the customer doesn't feel like one, they're getting the best quality product and two, getting it in the best way possible, that makes an impact. So we're going to be exploring some of those nuances and intricacies, um, of the fulfillment process and how working with a marketplace partner where operations, fulfillment, like those are the roots of the business, right? Like they know how to get

Phillip: No pun intended.

Alicia: Yes, we love plant humor. So we're going to get to the heart of like how all of that works and why having a partner in this case like Temu is so essential to growth.

Phillip: Growth. Also, pun intended.

Phillip: You have such an interesting outlook here, too, because I think if you are, you know, in charge of marketplace operations, you know, in your business, a lot of your experience is probably also in paid acquisition of traffic for your marketplace business, right? So a lot of your job basically comes down to, you know, creative, you know, generation and traffic acquisition and, you know, paid spend to drive the success of that marketplace. The story that we're about to hear tells a very different story of Jessica De Gennaro's experience on Temu. And something else to be said here, without giving away the whole story ahead of time is for a ten year experience of, you know, other platforms. Very happy so far with the success on Temu. So something to be said about channel diversification, and the shift of the playing field here in, you know, exploring other paths to growth. And I think if you are a merchant, in you know, these uncertain times, you're looking forward to 2026, you're trying to figure out what are my strategies going forward. This a great opportunity to be checking in on all of your opportunities and all of the channels for incrementality that might be available to you in the future.

Phillip: So who is this podcast for? Uh, this for any US-based business of any size that's looking for channel expansion. If you're a leader who's mapping out your channel diversification strategy for 2026, this for you. And like I said, maybe you're leading marketplace operations, maybe you're a strategy lead looking at what might be ahead for you as you're making investments going into the new year and you wonder what kinds of consumers shop on Temu. Who's buying? What are they buying? How might your brand fare? You might have some entrenched ideas about the types of products, the pricing of those products, the promotion and discovery of those products, what might exist on Temu. You might be a little surprised by what you hear on this series. And that's why this series exists here in this, our sixteenth season of Step by Step. So we are so glad you're here. Set us up, Alicia. We do have an expert along for this journey. Uh, what are we going to hear a little bit about today?

Alicia: We do. Uh, we have Zac Stammer back again with us from eMarketer. Um, just a reminder for folks, and if you are new to the series, um, Zac has been covering the marketplace space for years, um, starting with the early players like the Amazons and the Walmarts, then of course going into the T Moves the niche players. And he really has that data driven perspective of, you know, what's happening in the global market. Where is growth occurring? What are the opportunities? What are the challenges for brands as they strive to grow globally? And how can you best determine where to place your bets? What what platforms are the best fit for you? So he's gonna come in, set us up a little bit, set the stage by sharing some of that third party data and insight that he has gathered over the past year in particular to really help us understand the global ecom opportunity, but also the ins and outs of the fulfillment and operational side. and what are the keys to winning over that global customer, um, particularly on a platform like Temu. Zac, welcome back to Step by Step. Thanks again so much for joining us.

Zak: Yeah. Happy to be here.

Alicia: So we're gonna be providing a little bit of setup so to speak for our conversation with Jessica DeGennero of Shop Succulents. And this a very fascinating story because of the product itself, Right? These are live plants being sold and shipped not just, you know, within The US sometimes across borders. So I would love your thoughts on this because obviously you're always studying and analyzing the marketplace space. Who's doing what, what are the keys to success? And I think the key takeaway here is marketplaces are supporting these more complex, possibly challenging product categories. Right? I mean, can you expand upon the opportunity from like a logistics and fulfillment perspective, like the benefits of working with the marketplace to kind of take some of the work off of your plate in this manner? Because again, I'm sure there are some folks listening that are selling similar complex categories.

Zak: When you work with a marketplace, you can lean on the expertise of a gigantic corporation and not have to figure things out on your own. And figuring things out on your own when you're shipping something as challenging or unusual or difficult as live plants or any number of other things is just it's not something that a lot of small businesses want to or have the capability of doing easily well or successfully even. But when you lean on the expertise of a team or Amazon or Walmart, these large players that have incredibly complex logistics operations, you can lean on that expertise and scale up a business much more quickly than you could on your own. And you also have the advantage of leaning on the large platforms that they operate to build visibility much more quickly than propping up a website and then seeking to gain visibility in that respect as well.

Alicia: Yeah, I'm glad you brought up this idea of visibility because, you know, obviously it's a very distinct product, you know, in this scenario, live plants, but there is this, you know, ongoing tug of war of like how do I get found as a small business? And there are challenges possibly because you know, these marketplaces do offer advertising opportunities. They offer, you know, retail media as an option to get more eyes, get more clicks. So I guess the big question is like for these small businesses that are just starting, I mean, what are the possible challenges they need to prepare for in this more robust and competitive climate. And then maybe we can get into some possible solutions after.

Zak: Yeah. So the biggest challenge is there's just so many different players out there. How are you going to get found? And so one is just having a distinct product, like having something different. Even if there's many different sellers selling live plants, Maybe you sell a different type of live plant, a particular type of succulent, or a fruit tree, or whatever it might be, something that's different. And then tailoring content around that, telling a story that explains what is so interesting or unique or different about whatever it is that you are selling. But then I think the other element here is advertising. Advertising works. In some ways, it can serve as somewhat of a toll just to get to move quicker. It's like a tollway, you know? You can take, in most cities, you can take the slower expressway, or you can take the tollway, and if you pay for the toll, you can move quicker. It's the same thing on a marketplace. It just is an it can often serve as an accelerant to gaining visibility, which can help you gain momentum more quickly.

Alicia: Yeah. That definitely makes sense. But for these smaller businesses that are looking to test the waters but may not have so much capital available to test and learn on a grand scale. Do you have any recommendations or or guidance to help them figure out how to best incrementally figure out, like, where and how to advertise? Because, like, depending on the marketplace, I'm sure, you know, there are there are more robust offerings or, you know, a a bigger list, so to speak, to choose from.

Zak: Yeah. I mean, I think you don't have to start big. You can dip your toes in and see if you are just advertising the brand or just a particular product and tailoring that spend to a particular audience or whatever it might be. There's no one size fits all here. It really is dependent upon the particular seller, the particular product, and so on and so forth. But I think that same tenet of test, learn, iterate, evolve is really what makes sense here. And then once you find something that works, lean in in that direction and then just keep doing that. You have to just keep testing the waters to see what works, because what works today might not work tomorrow. And so you have to be very dynamic because the spaces are rather dynamic. So it's an ongoing process. You can never just say problem solved, but I think advertising works.

Alicia: And it's a way for the creative elements that you touched on earlier, the messaging, photography, some are using video now. That's a way to kind of bring it full circle and bring some of that great owned content that you incorporate into product detail pages, but also social media, maybe your owned e comm site if you have one and bring that into advertising. So you kind of have that full, that full circle moment. But before we dig into the shop succulent story, I do want to go back to a point that you brought up in an earlier part of the series, which is this idea of diversification and how it is important. You know, every marketplace has its own distinct audience, its own distinct benefits. And again, you know, a lot of the stories we're featuring are, you know, they're small businesses early in their marketplace journeys. I guess the big question is how do founders, business owners know when that time is right to diversify? Like, is there a certain trigger point or a certain stage in their progress on one platform where they say, okay, now is the time for me to kind of branch out and test new water, so to speak?

Zak: I don't think you have to get very far to see the benefits of diversification. I think diversification makes sense relatively early on, not in terms of going everywhere. But like I said earlier, I think if you're too closely aligned with any one platform, they're just that carries a lot of risk. And so you want to mitigate your risk. So it might mean you're on two platforms to start and then you slowly build to three. Or depending on how things are going, you might quickly scale out. But I think it makes a lot of sense to diversify because any one platform just carry, it just carries too much risk to be too reliant on any one platform. I've said that like 12 times in various ways, but, you know, I think it just risk mitigation is essential because you're a small business, and you don't want to fall prey to just an algorithm change. And then lo and behold, you're out of luck. Or maybe it's like something as simple as tastes change on this particular platform and you're out of luck. But if you are on three different platforms, very same those situations might not have occurred. And so you just to mitigate the risk. Yeah. But because it's so important.

Alicia: Yeah. Well, especially for, you know, small businesses that, you know, possibly have, you know, low SKU count and they wanna maximize their time and their money. And, you know, it's figuring out which levers to pull. Think it is really what it comes down to. Right? It's figuring out where your your consumer is, um, where you're seeing the most momentum, and, you know, putting the right amount of dollars towards those places. But, Zac, I think it is a great way to kind of set the stage for our conversation with Jessica because she didn't start out with a shop succulents as her business. She started out in another area of marketplace selling and, you know, was able to see some success and that led to this new growth story, no pun intended. Um, and she has some very similar learnings and insights to share with all of our listeners. Thank you again so much for setting the stage for us and for, um, you know, sharing your outside and much, much larger perspective on, you know, what sellers are doing on marketplaces and what they can do in the future to see success. We're we're gonna bring you back one more time, but for now, thanks so much for joining us, Zac.

Zak: Yeah. Thanks for having me.

{Music}

Phillip: Jessica De Gennaro, welcome to the show.

Jessica: Thank you for having me.

Phillip: Oh, so glad to have you. I'm gonna ask you right off the bat, why succulents? What drew you to it and when did you start it?

Jessica: I graduated college. I spent a lot of time in the restaurant business. I really enjoyed the restaurant business, largely because it's an energetic, cool place to be. You're always meeting new people. You really get a sense of kind of what's going on in the world, and it's always lively and fun. I started working for a company that I'm sure many people are familiar with, Yard House, many, many years ago. Back when Yard House was a much smaller company, they were sort of rapidly growing. They had not been bought out yet, so it was still kind of the original owners. And I found a home kind of in a family there. And so I started as a bartender and I sort of worked my way up into their training program where I got a really cool experience to be able to travel with the company and help open their new locations. And in that, I would give, you know, Yard House, you know, sort of a microbrewery, you know, it's the place to be right, a 100 taps minimum usually. So I would give the beer classes to the new staff, which, you know, could be a couple 100 people. I would do a lot of the training kind of from the ground up, both on the management side and also with the employees.

Jessica: Um, and I loved it. It was a blast. At some point I realized I wanted I think in that process, realized I really wanted a career that I could dictate myself. I didn't really wanna work for anyone. And it was mostly because I think for me, the concept of having a ceiling sounds depressing. I wanted to be able to build my ceiling as high as I wanted to on any given day, I think. Um, and so I knew I wanted to work for myself. I had no idea what I wanted to do. I explored different options, um, and eventually found e commerce, um, and found that I loved the research aspect of it. Kind of dove into it, um, really small. Uh, you know, I started my business borrowing 2,000 on my friend's credit card, um, and I just started buying and selling things essentially. It had nothing to do with succulents. Uh, started on Amazon. I realized I was successful even on a small level. So I basically quit my job at 30 because that was my deadline for myself, that if I hadn't figured it out, go jobless. And my experience is that you, I perform really well under fire. So take away the safety and see what you can do. So I primarily sold socks, to be honest with you, when I started in the e commerce space.

Jessica: Back then, Amazon was really kind of the biggest and really the only, um, marketplace. Um, and I had some success, but, um, I realized that as I went along larger companies were entering the space, um, competition was getting really steep and I didn't own an idea or a brand or anything. So really wasn't a business per se. I was just kind of making money. So I wanted to change that. So I did what I do normally when I'm creating ads. So you're starting to kind of feel put some feelers out to understand what what are people looking at, what are they interested in, um, and where is there a niche in that there's a ton of interest and maybe not a huge, you know, a huge showing of big competitors. And what I found then was that succulents were super popular and everybody was looking at them and interested in them, and there was almost no one selling them online. I didn't know what a succulent was. So um, I asked my sister, my little sister who lived in Fullerton at the time. She was dating a guy that was a horticulturalist, um, and learned quickly what they were and thought, well, I could do that. And I dove in.

Alicia: That's some connection.

Jessica: It was some connection. He actually did help point me in the right direction because I was, you know, where do you buy these? And, you know, how do you how do you begin sort of? And so I learned that the sort of the mecca for these awesome little plants was, um, in San Diego. So totally did a 180 and decided to start shop succulents, Drove all over San Diego, mostly using Google Maps, looking for aerial views of greenhouses because there's not a ton there's not you know, the wholesalers, these are not giant companies that are doing large, you know, marketing and putting out catalogs that you can pick from, right? So I started by walking a lot of greenhouses and, you know, learning as I went, popped up a little greenhouse in my backyard and it was little. And I had my warehouse space. I killed a lot of succulents in that first year, a lot Took some time, tested packaging, and then kind of grew from there. And that's honestly where Shop Succulents came from.

Phillip: And you began sort of with this idea that it would be an e commerce business. and you had this idea that you would source from growers and that you would fulfill I assume you fulfilled yourself to in the in the beginning. and so do you have your own greenhouses now or are you sort of vertical? How does that work today?

Jessica: Today, it's very different. So we have a much larger warehouse for fulfillment, and we have growing grounds in, you know, a few acres of growing grounds. Our greenhouses are no longer, you know, 20 feet by, you know, 10 feet. They're football fields long. And we actually grow a lot of our own plant material and fulfill it. And, you know, I actually have employees to help me do that. And we've come a long way from SOX.

Phillip: Congrats on the success.

Jessica: Thank you.

Alicia: That's amazing. How many team members do you have now?

Jessica: We still run pretty lean and mean. Um, we've accordioned, um, significantly. I'm sure like other companies, you know, COVID did a number on us. So we've accordioned and been in different sizes, but currently we have about 12 employees and they're awesome. They I have a really great group that works hard, is genuinely committed to, um, the business and, you know, we're friends. Uh, so we have a- I love that. Yeah. So,

Alicia: So the business today you have direct eComm or I guess let's let's go back in time a little bit. Right? In in the early stages of the business as you were starting to grow, um, just on just branded eComm? Or did you go into the process knowing that you did need some sort of presence on a marketplace in order to reach more customers?

Jessica: So I started a 100% in marketplace and grew market marketplaces first, added my website later. Like the marketplaces are interesting. They're kind of like their own. They're each their own animal. They breathe different, they move different, they have different resources. It's kind of like every time you get on a new marketplace, it's like digging into a new book to understand what that marketplace requires to be successful. It's almost like a mystery that you have to solve. I enjoy marketplaces. Yeah.

Alicia: And I'm sure a lot of the folks listening to this conversation feel very much the same way because they each have their own unique, um, positioning. They're in some cases, own unique customer base or maybe they skew older or younger. Um, but the reason why I'm asking about, like, where you started and how you grew is because I could imagine selling live plants online is pretty tricky, especially from a operational and, like, fulfillment standpoint.

Jessica: Operational nightmare.

Alicia: Kinda you kinda hinted at it in the beginning where they're like, It's operational. So I guess my question for you is, were there moments where you had to reassess whether certain partners or certain platforms were really working for you? Like, how do you navigate that piece of the puzzle specifically?

Jessica: Sure. I mean, there's so many layers to that question. But so, like, early on, some of the bigger you know, we're we're in an industry that has a natural barrier to entry. Right? I mean, you've kinda hit the nail on the head. Selling live plants, trying to sell a plant that is actually rooted in soil. Right? And then protect that delicate thing that needs light and oxygen and all these things, throw it into a box, ship it across The United States. Who knows what the weather's like in the dark? That's an unhappy being for the entire time. Right? So how do you how do you make up for that? So I think one of the biggest pieces for us is time. So we, from the beginning, and this was kind of interesting, especially in the beginning, because shipping itself is really expensive, right? No matter what you're shipping, it's really expensive and it's changing, that landscape is changing every five seconds. Who's in charge and who's the biggest, how fast are they moving? What does it cost? So that's a piece that's always kind of on the move. I think for us in the beginning, was tough because I knew that, you know, two day error or less was kind of the ideal scenario for, you know, a perishable product. Um, trying to get everyone on board with that idea was difficult. I think the other part to that, the other factor there is getting better and better with your fulfillment approach so that you're able to bridge the gap no matter what's going on. But yeah, operationally live plants is really, it's really tough. I mean, you know, we're all different. People are all different. You know, every day is not the same for you. And I think people kind of maybe, you know, don't take into consideration that it's a living thing. And so, you know, a leaf might come off because it's upset that it was in really cold temperatures for the last two days, you know, these are things that happen. So how do you combat that? It's an interesting process for sure. Yeah.

Alicia: Yeah. No, it's fascinating. So you mentioned Amazon directly. What other marketplaces are kind of Your and how did you get to the point where you wanted to go into the direction of Temu? Like what made you feel like that platform, that ecosystem was right for where you were as a founder, as a business owner, and I guess as a brand more broadly in that moment.

Jessica: Sure. Uh, we participate in, um, a lot of different marketplaces. We, we have some accounts, some cool accounts too, that we, um, sort of white label for. Um, so, you know, all of the main, um, sort of places. So were, you know, Amazon, Walmart, Home Depot, Lowe's, Temu is a new addition for us. We white label for some companies like Urban Outfitters, Crate & Barrel, things like that. So, um, we have a myriad of accounts, um, and each one kind of requires something different. Temu is our newest addition, and they they actually they approached us at the beginning of the year. I hadn't they weren't really on my radar yet. I mostly because I think they're fairly new to the American market, um, and live plants being an interesting and difficult category. It comes with its own, um, rules and regulations. Uh, you know, you can't just ship whatever you want, any life plant from one ecosystem to another without potentially causing havoc. So I don't think that's usually the first, you know, subcategory that marketplaces will add. Um, I know that Temu had recently added, um, live plants. It just hadn't really come to my attention yet, but they approached us. I thought, you know, we're we're always interested in in checking out kind of what's new and what's happening and doing a little bit of research, realizing how quickly Temu was growing, certainly piqued my interest. Um, their approach to growth piqued my interest. And they came with a pretty solid team that was willing to sort of extend themselves in the beginning to help us kind of get up and rolling. So I think that was a big part. But it's always interesting layering in a new marketplace. You really don't know what you're walking into. Sometimes it's, you know, it can be a ton of volume. Sometimes it's lower volume. You don't know. You have to learn the landscape. It's always interesting.

Alicia: So yeah. Very interesting.

Phillip: Yeah. And I think when, you know, having the experience that you've had and you've had, like you said, this, you know, this perspective that every marketplace has its own demands and its own needs, and you sort of have to learn what works. Um, you've been on Temu for, it sounds like, less than a year. Uh, sounds from everything I've heard so far that you're seeing some success there. What do you think is working? What do you think has been challenging? Tell us a little bit about your experience so far and, you know, what are the factors that are driving the successes that you have had?

Jessica: Sure. Yes. So each marketplace does come with its own sort of guidelines, um, and most of that is nuanced and you have to learn it as you go. Temu is interesting. Um, they I always feel like when I start on a on a marketplace six months down the road, I think, oh, probably be wise to scrap the whole thing, start over and relaunch now that I feel like I have a better understanding of the landscape and what the requirements are. Temu has just like every marketplace, it's positives and it's negatives. So some of the things that, one of the things that struck me, we usually start by launching a small subset of our catalog just to try to test the waters. And it surprised me that within, you know, sort of within days of launching a product, were seeing sales and that's unique. Usually you have to figure out what's going to drive the sales on the marketplaces, right? Is it super ad driven? Is it, you know, discount driven? What are the things that bring visibility to your products? So that was kind of a fun and exciting, you know, place to be. We worked to launch our full catalog, which, you know, probably was fully launched mid year or so. Their landscape is changing as I'm learning it. So, you know, when we first started, they, you know, we did not have access to an ad platform. Now we have access to an ad platform, which on a daily basis upgrading and changing and giving us more and more metrics. Right? So that's a big piece right there. You have access to, you know, sort of deals constantly, which is a little bit different than a lot of other sites.

Jessica: Usually there's more planning and approval and things like that go into deals and how they're launched. Temu is a very deal driven site. Um, and that I didn't, I don't think I recognized that in the beginning. Um, but what's cool about that is it does, it gives you levers to pull. So we've sort of been systematically going through the different, the various deal types to find out how do they, how do they work? What do they produce? So that has kind of gotten me thinking on the catalog in general, perhaps one of the things that would be successful on Temu is almost building out a subset of a catalog that was specifically for Temu. Because of the way it works, because it is so deal driven, we've stepped into the ad platform a bit and still getting my feet wet there. Each platform is different, you know, whether it's Amazon ads or Google ads or Temu ads, they all have their own, you know, pieces to learn. So we're working on that and it seems to that certainly seems to be helping. But we're kind of working alongside of their growth and trying to figure it out as well. They do a great job of pulling in clearly, um, a large customer base during a high, um, volume times, what would be considered high volume times, um, because there's a natural, um, surge that happens there regardless of what you're doing. So that's, um, that's pretty cool. Um, that's a benefit for sure.

Phillip: Wow. There's a you know, you mentioned this you know, subset of your catalog. Did you talked about sort of testing and learning. Have you curated you know, you said you talked about maybe curating your catalog further. How many SKUs do you have listed now versus how many you launched with and has that grown and fluxed and changed over time?

Jessica: Sure. Uh, when we first started, I think we probably launched somewhere around 50 SKUs. Uh, we're probably somewhere up around 500. I think there is value in taking a look at, um, Temu having its own catalog. There are a few things that are unique to Temu. One of them is the shipping piece. They extend their shipping discount right to the vendor which is great. Um, and they have some pretty extraordinary pricing for shipping, which does allow for products that are lower cost in general. That's a difficult area kind of an all all e commerce usually because the cost of shipping, say a product normally is, you know, $5.99, something like that. But if you think about it, what does it cost to ship that product? And so there's usually a barrier to those types of products. You know, it's you're typically looking at somewhere around a $14.99 and above making sense on the e commerce platforms just because of the cost of shipping, unless you're able to really leverage giant company's great shipping rates.

Phillip: That is a thing that, you know, we've had a lot of conversation about in Step by Step, Alicia, in the past around how you can partner with platforms that give you those sort of volume discounts. I remember, um, Step by Step I'm I know I'm gonna misquote this. Something I think season 10 or 11, um, around shipping and, um you know, 3PLs, 3PL efficiency. And there there was you know, a lot of talk around, you know, which label providers, you know, provide the greatest volume discounts. And, um, because, you know, when you're doing direct ship and you've got different label providers provide different volume discounts that come direct because they have these, you know, they have they are a mass provider of they are a mass shipper effectively. And so they are some of them pass those discounts through to you, the buyer. I think that's really unique here on the platform. The other, you know, another question just as a means of follow-up, Jessica, we have this, you know, sense of, you know, communication with a customer. You're often not in direct communication with customers in some marketplaces unless there's, you know sometimes it's mediated, sometimes it's not. I think we had heard that there's often, you know, especially in your business, a lot of education around the product. What has been your sense of the Temu customer? How are they generally? How do they differ to you know, the type of customer you might encounter elsewhere? Um, you know, what is the your experience with the platform to communicate with customers? Give me a little bit about, you know, how what that like real time feedback is like and etcetera. How has it been on the platform compared to your other experience?

Jessica: It's super interesting because each platform truly has its own ecosystem and the customers are a voice of that. So there's, we work in a lot of different platforms and sometimes it's kind of like a battlefield, you know, you're like, Hey, listen, I'm sorry that, you know, things do happen. A plant will die in transit or something will happen, right? It gets damaged, it gets left out in the snow, who knows? We certainly don't ever ship anything trying to have it arrive anything other than fabulous, but it does happen from time to time. And depending on the platform you're in, there seems to be a sort of a cadence to the customer. And the Temu customer, I couldn't tell you why, is generally nice. We've actually worked with Temu quite a bit on that. We like to be able to, you know, be as much in the forefront in those communications as possible because we do have an interesting product. It does teach, it does lend itself to a lot of education. You know, people will get the plant and say, okay, so now what do I do with it? Or what's the best scenario here? I live here, or this what's happening three months later. How can I fix it? It's ideal for us to be there and be able to be the ones that are communicating first with the customer. So we have a lot of that flexibility.

Alicia: Yeah. Are there any other ways that team has supported you in that area knowing again, how, how complex, you know, shipping and delivery can be for your, your product sector? I mean, are there any other offerings or even perspectives, I guess, that they've provided to support you there?

Jessica: You know, I think it's more of a relationship, right? So I think Temu, like, honestly, all of the platforms that we've worked within, I mean, we've been around for a while. We helped Amazon, you know, weren't the only company. There were a handful of us. But, you know, when they wanted to launch their live plant shop, the subcategory didn't exist. And when I started, the subcategory didn't exist. I listed plants in the terrarium subcategory under pots, plant pots, right? So the plant category didn't even exist. Now the plant category has started to develop subcategories of its own, right? So succulents and cacti, house plants, air plants, things like that. So I think that it's a little bit, um, you know, TEMU there to support, absolutely. I think they're also learning from us. We have a lot of experience in shipping life plants, think. So it's kind of a, it's more of a conversation. We raise to them some of the issues that, you know, we see or might be dealing with and they help come back to help provide that solution, you know, but they are communicative. And that in my opinion is the, that's the key in having us, that is the ultimate key in having a successful launch and growth experience with a marketplace. It's difficult to get. They are big companies. They don't necessarily all give you, you know, basically a vendor manager or seller manager to help navigate your personal revenue growth, right? So having those resources, it's a big deal. And I think as a seller recognizing that, how to optimize that resource, understanding that you have a person that's willing to get on the phone, you know their name. And so to work that is important, you know, to continue to drive that relationship so that they have a better sense of who you are as a company and their willingness to help assist you in the myriad of issues that come up, you know, selling online.

Alicia: I could imagine that's a big factor as you consider the return on investment, so to speak, of being in all these different marketplaces, knowing that you have a direct person and there is that, um, exchange and transparency between you and them. And you almost feel like there's, um, not just accountability but someone in your corner so to speak to kind of help guide you through the process. And, you know, I guess this leads to a bigger point around driving awareness and getting new customers in the door, right? Because that's the big value of marketplaces. You're, you're able to reach new customers and expand your base. Um, and you know, there's a lot of conversation around, you know, certain marketplace is and is it, you know, pay to play for visibility, um, especially because advertising is becoming a bigger piece of the puzzle. Um, and I'm curious, I know you're still, you're figuring out the advertising piece, um, for Temu specifically, how did that whole experience play out for you as you were not just building your presence, but also starting to try to reach new customers? Like how did it shake out compared to maybe past experiences as far as, you know, getting people in the door, so to speak?

Jessica: Um, marketplaces, you said it right. Um, they're cool because you're able to, as a small business leverage off of the giant businesses advertising budget that, you know, I guess we all hope we could see one day, but probably might not arrive there. Right? And that's the first trick, right? So it's really understanding, I think being successful in any marketplace is understanding how that marketplace ticks. Um, so first understanding where they push and how they push, not that you're ever gonna know the details of that, but having a general understanding of how they push their own advertising budget and how you might fit into that. So for example, in the spring, patio lawn and garden in general, whether you're selling soil or you're selling plants or tractors, we get more attention because it's the time of year. Right? Everybody's excited. The sun shines out. It stopped raining ideally, and you want to go and play in the garden. So you know what I'm saying? So we get more attention. So understanding how the marketplace itself works and breathes and how much attention they're willing to give to this category, much less your subcategory. I think the next piece to that is what are some of the bigging, biggest driving factors? And that's an ever changing, it's imperative to research what is happening in each, whatever marketplaces you're participating in, really kind of being in the know for their movements so that you're kind of in step with them. What is it that they consider important right now? Right? So Amazon or Temu or Walmart making a big push to wanting a lot of visual content, like video content might be something that they're driving at.

Jessica: And if you're not participating in that algorithmically, you're dropping, right? So trying to understand what each one of these sites are doing, I think is a big one. And then also positioning yourself with your own budget, whatever that might be with your own advertising within the platform itself to try to really, that's to take on your own competitors as far as I can, you know, the way I see it. You're leveraging the marketplace to the crowd in, and then you're sort of making your own actionable plan between deals, discounting, advertising, whatever, to try to make yourself, you know, the best option within your own competitive landscape. So not sure if that answered the question thoroughly enough, or maybe it was overly answered. I think Temu is interesting because of they do this crazy social media marketing that drives ton of people to the site. And I feel like I'm starting to understand how deal driven it is and understand how the ad platform works so that we're able to be most relevant within our own competitors and also be, how do I rise to the top to someone who might be shopping for, you know, a new turkey pan, you know, but they might be interested in live plants, right? So how do we do that? How do we work that balance?

Phillip: Yeah, that's you know, I think that's where you've mentioned the, you know, advertising capabilities a number of times, I think both on the visibility side of how Temu is going to market for you in social media marketing and sort of visibility there. I think the other is in your ability to leverage, you know, ad creative on the platform. And I think that's something interesting about your story is that you have you obviously have familiarity with it on other marketplaces. Uh, other people that we've spoken to had not taken advantage of that just yet, or they've used other levers for traffic and visibility within Temu, more on the promotion side. Tell me how you think about customer acquisition and maybe then give me your perspective on how it should work on a marketplace basis.

Jessica: It's difficult. It's a little scary, you know, trying to drive a small business profitably through steep competition and the competition starts at the top. And then you have all of the sellers and, you know, floating underneath that, trying to figure out how to keep their business profitable, stay on top of it, develop new products, costs of things are going up. You know, who knows? There's plenty going on, right? That makes for running a business quite expensive. So it's a little scary, I think, sometimes trying to figure out the best approach. For us, one of the things that we have actively worked is to try to own more of our supply chain. So when I started the company, I did not, I bought everything. I had probably knew every grower from one side of San Diego to the other, worked with them actively and built the business from there. As we continue to grow and develop, I think one of the things that are important for a business owner to look at is what are my biggest costs and do I have control over any of them? Um, what control do I have to whittle those things down? For us, one of the things was actually growing our own plants as opposed to buying them all. So we still actively work and rely heavily on a lot of our local growers to help us be successful. But one of the things that we do is we started a growing program a few years back, we've built it and it's for a few reasons. One, cuts our costs of goods significantly. One of the other things it does is it gives us a little bit more control over the product we're putting out on a daily basis and control over our catalog.

Jessica: So live plants in itself has the landscape has changed. Ten, fifteen years ago fifteen years ago when I started, you know, it was kind of like everyone loves succulents and it was, they were cool because they didn't need a whole lot of water and they were really bright and colorful. So as long as you were putting something purple, something yellow in the pack, everyone was happy. You know, fast forward now, you know, what you would consider cool and unique, a lot of those, you know, we sell a lot of plant packs. So, you know, a 20 pack of 20 different succulents. Well, people are a lot more savvy. They're like, hey, we don't want any of the old boring stuff that we've seen for the last decade. Give us some of the new stuff. So I think for us, when we grow our plants, one of the things we're looking at doing is trying to make sure that we're sort of on the edge of what is cool, unique, fun, new, so that we're a company that people want to continue to come back to. And we're able to manage our profitability better by producing and owning some of our supply chain. So I think that's kind of a big piece of it. And I know that, again, it's a pretty layered question. And probably if you spoke to, you know, anyone else in different categories, they might give you 10 different, you know, answers. Um, but I think as a business owner, that's a big one.

Alicia: No, and I'm sure a lot of folks listening despite category differences, idea of growing sustainably and profitably is very top of mind, right? Because I could imagine there's a bit of a tug of war happening where, you know, they recognize that these marketplaces are where customers are. Right. You, you kind of have to be a part of the machine, so to speak in order to reap some of the benefits. But then there is that conversation of, well, how do I do this in a way that is meaningful and aligned with the brand, with my product set, no matter how big or small, and how do I do it in a way that is, um, sustainable operationally, but also financially. So I think you're kind of raising a lot of those issues to a head, especially if it means, um, you know, determining the difference between being front and center to the customer versus, you know, being there but not quite being elevated, um, in the way that's required to be successful on these platforms. So I guess, you know, as we run out our time together with that in mind, I'd love for you to kind of distill this complexity a little bit and share your thoughts on how you think these marketplaces are really changing the playing field and the competitive dynamic in in this world of retail, especially for smaller businesses. And of course, please feel free to pull from your experiences firsthand directly to kind of shape this. But I'm always fascinated to hear, you know, this, again, this dynamic of, yes, it's even the playing field and leveled it out a little bit and given us access, but there are some of these complexities and some of these, um, challenges around visibility. So, I mean, how are you how do you think, you know, the marketplace landscape is really changing things up for small businesses both for better and possibly for worse. I mean, I'd love your take on that.

Jessica: Sure. Marketplaces are kind of like the wild, wild West. They can be cruel and vicious and a bit cold, right? Competitively speaking, you're not really buddies with the And the expectations are steep and customers are hyper expecting. And it can be really hard, really hard to develop a brand have anyone care. So there's like the so what to it. Right? And so, but with that, what they are, I think potentially forging is the in order to remain relevant, you have to be creative. You have to be willing to do something new. So early on in marketplaces, you know, if you were selling, you know, pick a product, any product, like a black sneaker, right? There would be 800 listings for whatever that black sneaker was all at different price points. Who knows if you're actually gonna get it? You know, there's some measure of metrics, you know, with star systems, if the seller is worthy, valuable, whatever. Fast forward to now, that's been rooted out quite a bit. These review systems, things like that. What it's doing now is instead of, I could say it specifically in live plants, but I think it probably works, you know, across marketplaces. It's going to, it's forcing sellers to become creative. I would say if you're having a difficult time being seen and remaining relevant and remaining profitable, it you really need to go back and check yourself on your creativity. How then do we push up a new product that presents a different way, has a different feel, has a different overall value. In live plants, one of the things that we run across, we'll put out a new product or a new collection.

Jessica: Feels like five minutes later, 10 other sellers will put up the same looking productcollection, right, to imagery, to content, all of these things. And I think, man, that's not the way to compete actually, right? So the best way to compete is to be sort of constantly producing something new. And marketplaces allow you to do that. I mean, you can really kind of slice and dice your catalog on a daily basis and put something new out, take two products, put them together because maybe they naturally go together and poof, you have a new product that maybe you don't sell that way on your own website. So I don't know. I think that ultimately, long story short, you know, marketplaces can be vicious and brutal for sure. And they will certainly level up your game as far as your ability to ship on time and properly deal with customers. On the flip side, I think that because of the amount of competition, the amount of sellers, small businesses that flood to marketplaces to leverage their access, I think it's gonna force the small businesses to be more creative. And I think that it's interesting because now you've got the small business, large business thing, large businesses always, you know, always being so dominant because of their ability to have high production and low costs and all these things. But I don't know. I'm kind of bored of seeing the same old thing on the shelves, and I'm kind of bored of shopping the same old things on the screen. So I think it forces it will start to forge new paths for more creative products.

Phillip: Wow. I think that's such a a brilliant way of thinking about the necessity and marketplace dynamics of competitive advantage, um, and, you know, best idea wins. Um, I think it's you know, for all of its flaws it's sort of the capital system is we in the consumer economy is, like, ultimate choice goes to the product with, you know, a product of preference. And we have the opportunity, I think, to meet consumers where their expectations and their demands are, those tend to be raising over time. And I do believe that requires us to innovate. And so it also requires us to understand to your earlier point, Jessica, where culture is heading, because the culture of any, you know, the cultural attitudes towards something that's novel in the beginning is I'll take whatever is novel and just give me whatever is new. Um, and then we become sort of it's no longer new and now and it's no longer novel. Now it's commonplace and now it's commoditized. And now you are required to deliver something entirely different. And that's how you innovate amongst your peers, and that's also how you differentiate amongst your peers. And so I think it's so for you to in to sort of wrap up, I think you have really summed up in your own perspective, the entirety of, you know, an industry's business challenges and journey. Um, and I think in a really abstract way too, because that is what everybody is facing right now as well. We've seen it, Alicia, in the way that people have built software, um, and ecommerce sites. We've seen it in the way that people have built, um, look alike brands.

Phillip: We've seen it in, you know the explosion of drop ship you know copycat brands. And it's everywhere in our in our world, in our ecosystems at the moment. And so I think the sea of sameness is sort of taken over. I love your perspective, Jessica. And I congrats on all of your success on Temu Temu and beyond. I think that it's it's admirable. Thank you so much for sharing it with us. Yeah. Thank you for joining us. I think you should go visit shop succulents on Temu. Go grab a plant. It sounds delightful. And you should also if you wanna check out other episodes of this podcast, you can do so at futurecommerce.com/stepbystep. Thank you so much for tuning into this season of Step by Step, and thank you so much to Temu for partnering with us to make it possible. I think that it is so important to examine the three things that are necessary to pull off effective channel expansion like these merchants have done. You need agility, you need velocity, you need precision. And in all of these conversations, it seems like all three of those were executed perfectly. To do that, we need a marketplace partner that helps to make it work. If you wanna partner with Temu, you can do so by clicking the link below that's available on our podcast and also on our YouTube. Thank you so much for tuning into this episode of Step by Step. You'll find more episodes of this podcast at futurecommerce.com/stepbystep. And thank you so much again to Temu for partnering with us.