Phillip: Hello and welcome back to Step by Step, a podcast series brought to you by Future Commerce, presented this season in partnership with our friends at Temu. I'm Phillip.

Alicia: And I'm Alicia.

Phillip: And this is our 16th season of Step by Step. We're so glad you're here. This is our third episode and our final episode of the 16th season. If this is your first time tuning into this particular series, this is our last episode of the season. We do want you to consume the whole thing as it's meant to be listened to. I want you to go back, check out our full series, go back to the very first episode, and check it out from the very beginning, because it is well worth your time. This season on Step by Step, we are checking in with three real businesses who have had unexpected growth on Temu, real incremental growth. And they're all wildly different businesses with very different logistical challenges. And what we have found is that while they're vastly different, they've all had the same result. And this season on Step by Step, we're asking, you know, can a platform that has 400,000,000 monthly users be a channel for incremental growth for you in your business, even if you're a US based brand? And can you tap this audience of consumers that are looking for a viable alternative in a time where it's harder to open your wallet now than it has been in any other time that I can remember in online shopping? And so today, as we're wrapping up our season, we're going to check-in with, I think, probably one of the hardest logistical challenges that I can think of in online shopping, and that is frozen foods. And Alicia, we have this great conversation with Denys Gorbatiuk coming up. But it just makes me think about those unexpected types of items that we've learned about through this whole series that are available on Temu.

Alicia: Yeah, absolutely. I think at the top of this season, we discussed how more and more consumers are turning to marketplaces like Temu to discover. They may not have a particular need in mind, but they like to go through that treasure hunt, uh, so to speak, to see what exactly they can find. And I think in this particular case, I mean, Grumpy Butcher, like you mentioned, sells various high quality frozen meats. And that I have to say is the epitome of a surprise and delight moment on Temu. I mean, I personally did not expect it. And I think that has paid off big time for Denys because it has allowed him to reach a much younger consumer, right?

Phillip: Yeah. Yeah. And at a much higher price point than you may have imagined, uh, for a platform like Temu, which I think prior to the series, might have equated, uh, with us probably a smaller basket size and with a different type of a product, probably not more on the consumable side. What I would say is I've learned a lot about the types of consumers and the diversity of the type of consumers and what they buy throughout this series. And also the backstory of Denys, which I don't think we got into. He is the consummate entrepreneur who went to Columbia Law, left law for food right around the pandemic, had a big shift and a pivot in his business, and is doing probably the hardest thing you can possibly do in a tight margin business. He's shipping a frozen good. And not just that, but he's doing it in the e commerce sense by doing channel expansion methodically, carefully, and building a new category from scratch on this platform that I think a lot of people might say has a different type of a consumer than one he might go after traditionally. And I think that that just speaks volumes as to his forward thinking. Right? And also the kind of partnership that I think he's been able to forge on the platform. What else do you think that we can take away from this? I'll tell I'll set us up a little bit for the rest of the conversation, and then we'll get into it.

Alicia: Yeah. Absolutely. I think the the other really enlightening piece of of this chat with Denys is how he's been able to really turn Temu into such a critical channel for his business. Within five weeks, Temu has represented 12% of his online sales, which for so early on, I mean, that's pretty significant. But I think the big reason why it's been so effective is he's been able to tap into such insightful granular data in terms of not just who the consumer is that's buying from him, but also what they're buying. And getting a little bit deeper, a bit more nuanced, he's been able to unlock some new opportunities for building and curating bundles rather than just selling individual items. And, you know, younger consumers, we love a good bundle moment. Right? So he's actually been able to turn that data that he's gleaned and gathered through Temu and turn that into a competitive advantage and a road map for future growth. So I'm really excited to, uh, get into that piece.

Phillip: Yeah. There's so much to learn from this conversation. Just to check-in, if you are a leader in your business, you're looking for incrementality, this is probably a good conversation for you to be listening to heading into a new year. If you're a US based business and you are thinking about is this platform for me? The last three episodes, I think might answer that question for you. New channel expansion might be in top of everybody's mind going into the new year. So mapping out that channel diversification strategy for next year is something that I think this series is helping to address as part of your conversation around strategy. And then the last part about like, is this for you? If you are curious about what types of consumers are shopping on Temu, what they're buying, who they are, and whether your brand might fare well there, it's been such a you talk about diversity diversity of business and diversity of the types of products that they sell over these last three conversations. I do think that there is a lot of knowledge and wisdom to be gained through these conversations about the risks that others have taken, like Grumpy Butcher, like we'll talk about in forging those new channels and those new capabilities and engaging these consumers and figuring out what is possible on the platform. Uh, so a lot of that hard work has already been done upfront. I do want to say thank you so much to Temu for partnering with us this season. I've learned a lot through this whole series. I think a lot of my built in predispositions about what I thought about the platform has definitely been reframed, and I hope that our audience has learned a lot too. Along with us for the ride, we do have an expert to help give us a more data driven and informed basis on which our audience can make some decisions, uh, from eMarketer. Alicia, why don't you set us up for that conversation, and then we'll get right into it.

Alicia: Yeah. Absolutely. Our good friend Zak Stambor is with us once again, and he's going to be setting things up for us. I mean, he has been studying, analyzing, and reporting on the marketplace space for quite a while now. I mean, if you just do a simple search of his name on eMarketer site, you will see countless articles, reports that really dig deep into the state of the marketplace, uh, industry, global ecom growth opportunities, and you know, what consumers are doing, what they're expecting through these platforms. So to Phillip's point, if you're thinking about strategy, where does your brand show up today? Where can it show up tomorrow? And what is the best space for your brand, um, based on those distinct capabilities? I mean, Zak is our guy. Right? So we're gonna bring him on. We're gonna set the stage, uh, get some context that will undoubtedly transition nicely into our conversation with Denys of Grumpy Butcher. Zak, thanks for joining us for this final episode of Step by Step. Really appreciate you taking the time out to chat with us.

Zak: Yeah. Happy to be here.

Alicia: So to close out this season, we have a very interesting story, um, which is Grumpy Butcher. So they provide high end, uh, top notch frozen meats, frozen foods through Temu. Um, before we dig in, have you seen this, heard of this on marketplaces? Is this like a new thing that's gaining momentum?

Zak: There are always new products that are very surprising that resonate on marketplaces. And that's, I mean, it's one of the interesting things about online marketplaces is you never know what works. You never know what might work. And so that gets to like, why not see if it works? Because it certainly worked for this seller.

Alicia: Yeah, absolutely. And then in this particular case, the Grumpy Butcher was a category pioneer, so to speak on Temu. So they were the first perishable food seller, um, on the marketplace, which in and of itself is probably a marketing draw. Right? Like what are kind of the benefits, I guess, to being a first mover, whether it be through the category, through positioning, through design and, and what are the benefits of using marketplaces as a way to kind of be that, that first mover and that innovator. I'd love your take on that.

Zak: Yeah. I've said before that being on a marketplace, it's like being in a mall that has a million stores on it. But how do you draw attention? Well, you sell something that nobody else is selling. So if somebody wants meat, well, there's one there's one place to get that on the platform. And so that's what being a first mover gets you is a strategic advantage because you just don't have the competition. That's not without risk, but the potential upside is huge. And the potential upside is huge because not only do you not have a lot of competitors, but if you start to see what if you start to see momentum in the space, the platform very well might get behind you and give you a little nudge to help you along the way, because they also are seeing just strong growth potential in that space, in that category. And they want to build it up because it's working or seems to be working.

Alicia: Yeah. I love the idea of, you know, the partnership and that's something that's come up in, you know, our earlier conversations and it's certainly gonna come up in this one with the Grumpy Butcher. But what I find, again, especially compelling about this story just to double click on it is, you know, this isn't just a new relatively new category for marketplaces, um, and specifically for Temu, But this is almost a reframing or reprogramming of traditionally in store shopping behaviors. Um, and, of course, you know, there are other meal delivery services and, you know, grocery eCommerce is, you know, still a very small piece of the ecom pie, but, you know, there is some growth there. But there's clearly value. And I guess that's really the crux of my question for you is like how do factors like convenience, accessibility, maybe even price. I mean, in this case, the the products themselves are relatively, um, you know, higher price. So may not be a factor here, but the convenience, the accessibility are there. So how do they come come into play for marketplaces and, and how is that driving influence for consumers? Like maybe they are typically an in store shopper, but they see, hey, like I can buy a nice, you know, box of steaks on Temu. Why not give it a shot? Like, is it really that influential, I guess, from a decision making perspective?

Zak: I think it is. And I think, you know, habits are hard to break, but they're not always that difficult to form once you start going in that direction. And that's what I think is the case here. With grocery e commerce in particular, but also just e commerce overall. Once you start seeing that advantage of convenience, a broader assortment, the accessibility piece is certainly a factor, then you start to question, do I wanna allocate my limited time to venturing out, going to multiple stores to pick up the various things that I wanna purchase and hope that they have them in stock? When you go online and you see, oh, I can just buy this steak and they have it, and it's a price that I think is fair, and it'll show up in X number of days and I can plan for that, That convenience is worth a lot. And so once you do that the first time, then you'll probably, if you have a good experience, do it a second time, and then that just builds on itself. And, you know, that's what happens with that's what's happened with e commerce overall. That's what's slowly but surely happening with grocery e commerce. You know, it's small numbers for now, but it's up and to the right. And over time, we just expect that to continue to grow.

Alicia: That's very interesting. Also because there's that digital component and in this case marketplaces, um, there is a younger consumer set adopting these behaviors. And it's kind of like they're they're, uh, you know, largely online anyway. So it's like, not try the thing even though it's a little bit, you know, different than their typical behaviors? And, you know, that's the draw for a lot of these marketplaces. Right? Especially a destination like Temu that does, you know, skew possibly younger and, you know, they may be coming in to buy fashion or home decor, but, you know, they see a brand like Grumpy Butcher and they think, why not try the thing? And the more engagement happens, the more insight there is. Right? Um, and I guess this kind of ties this idea of like data analytics. And we we've we've talked about this in an earlier episode, um, with you, but I mean, this idea of having the insight access to insight, is that kind of becoming a, like, key entry point for these sellers, like, as far as, like, their expectations and demands of the marketplaces they partner with? Because I don't know if this is still the case, but I recall there kind of being some differences in terms of like the depth of data that certain marketplaces will share with sellers. Is that still a thing or have the dynamics changed around data access at all?

Zak: Yeah. I mean, is certainly a factor. I'm going to speak at like a 100,000 foot view. There is some information that sellers cannot access when they sell on online marketplaces, but there's also a lot of data that they can't get. And these marketplaces have such a broader array of customers that there's just a lot more potential to dive into who's on here, what are their behavioral patterns? Even more minute shifts in those behaviors are possible in a way that like when you put your shingle out and you have a handful of people trickle in in the course of a week or a month, is just not possible because you don't have the scale. And so that scale, I think, is the really interesting piece that marketplaces offer that small businesses or even mid sized businesses just can't possibly get otherwise. And so there's, I think it's incredibly valuable, whatever it is that you can get. I guess I'll just leave it there, is that like, yes, there are some things that you Certain things and certain relationships that are not possible to build, but more broadly, the potential wouldn't be there without the online marketplace. Online marketplaces often are protective over their customers, but it's a relationship with the seller and the marketplace as well.

Alicia: And I'm glad you brought up this idea of relationship, right? Because there does need to be some trust established between the seller and the marketplace. And in cases like Grumpy Butcher where it is a new category and they are the first entrant, that's an opportunity in and of itself to kind of forge that trust and establish some sort of, you know, back and forth, you know, we'll share insight if you apply the insight and you know, that's one thing that I find really exciting in general about marketplaces is like one, you can reach that larger audience, that newer audience maybe that you didn't have access to before and then you learn from them and then the magic happens when you can apply it, right? Whether that be through marketing or product or maybe a combination of the two.

Zak: Absolutely. And it should be I mean, like you said, it should be a relationship. There should be a oh, it should be a win win. And very often it is because, you know, the seller gets access to customers that it would never be able to access just because of the scale scope of the marketplace. And the marketplace obviously gets revenue in a broader selection that it otherwise would not be able to get. And so it can be incredibly valuable. That's why marketplaces are proliferating is because it can and very often is a win win relationship. But like all relationships, they take work. And so it's important for sellers and marketplaces to build on the relationships that they have when you have a first mover to help them build their business, and then as their business builds to facilitate their future growth. For the seller to help that marketplace figure out what else might work. Maybe it's something like advertising, maybe it's just new categories, or maybe it's just the way in which products are displayed, all sorts of different elements at play. But it's a dynamic relationship and ensuring that both sides are working on that relationship, I think is incredibly important.

Alicia: I love that. And a perfect way to set the stage for our conversation with Grumpy Butcher because that relationship is very much strong and evident. I think in hearing about the growth story, there are some great metrics, insights, and of course learnings throughout the journey. But Zak, um, thank you so much again for joining us not just for this episode, but for the entire season. You really helped ground us I think in a more holistic view of what's happening in the marketplace landscape from a data perspective but also from a behavioral perspective as well. What consumers are doing but also what the sellers and the marketplaces themselves are doing too. Thank you again so much for joining us.

Zak: Yeah. Thanks for having me.

Phillip: Today, we are joined by Denys Gorbatiuk, who is the founder of Den's Hot Dogs and Grumpy Butcher. Welcome to Step by Step, Denys.

Denys: Thank you for inviting me.

Phillip: Yeah. I'm glad to have you. And today, we're gonna learn a little bit about how channel expansion and incremental channel revenue are helping companies like yours to reach new audiences and specifically with our partners at Temu. And Grumpy Butcher apparently is one of those brands that you just wouldn't think about finding on Temu. What is Grumpy Butcher and what do you sell?

Denys: First and foremost, we are perishable, e commerce perishable food company. We sell variety of frozen proteins online. We're talking about various kinds of meats, steaks, prepackaged meals, everything perishable and food related in Grumpy Butcher Den's Hot Dogs. That's us. That's what we do. That's what our business is. Basically delivering perishable food to your doorsteps, 50 states across The United States.

Phillip: Wow. Uh, when I look for Grumpy Butcher online, the first thing that comes up is a package of US prime steaks. It's not the sort of thing that I would expect to find on Temu. I have to ask, you know, how is your experience on Temu going?

Denys: We could we couldn't wish for more of this Temu and Grumpy Butcher and Den's Hot Dogs is the first officially recognized perishable food company on Temu. Before us, you couldn't sell anything perishable related. They wanted to make sure that we are 100% compliant with many, many requirements by the government, by the states and locals. But after we did and we had a lot of help basically working directly with several senior people on Temu. They were walking, helping us, walking through the onboarding process. And basically when we went live, we had our first sale the same or the next days.

Phillip: Wow. Now you're no stranger to running this business. You have been in this now for many years. But when you launched Grumpy Butcher and Den's Hot Dogs, the food industry was in flux. You know, restaurants were in closing. This is in 2020. Supply chains were chaotic. Right? Consumers, you remember, we're all rediscovering how to enjoy food at home. That's I think when we signed up for home delivery for a lot of things, I think we got addicted to DoorDash and such. So what inspired you to start the business? And what opportunity did you see in that moment of disruption, Denys?

Denys: In the word survival, to survive. Basically the story goes as follows. We used to have a different kind of product. That's why the name, hence the name of the company, Den's Hot Dogs. When the COVID hit, our co packer, the manufacturing plant that was making our products had to close down. At the same time, our partner, the company we affiliated with, it's a large distributor and the manufacturer, food service operator, they had a different sort of problem. They were making their own products, but all their customers, supermarkets, groceries, restaurants, they were closed. So it was a company that was already selling food online, dissolved the product and the company that was selling food in brick and mortar places that were closed. They had the products, but we were already online different marketplaces. And that was a marriage of necessities between two parties. That's the bad on one hand. On the other hand, the good is that a lot of people were never, you know, shopping online buying steaks and frozen meals and chicken wings and many different things that we sell. They were just doing the old fashioned way that we're going to the grocery store and buying one thing at one store, going to the local butcher, buying other things. They had to start doing that online. And but the thing is, once they try, they realize the convenience factor. And many of them just decided to continue to do that. In a sense, it's like having a smartphone, Apple Pay, having Apple Pay on your phone. It's I remember, like, couple of years ago, I was like, I'm not doing that. Entering card took me some time. But once I tried, I just I don't have my wallet with me anymore. And the same is it's it's a pretty much the same thing goes with, you know, buying perishable food online. It's so many things you cannot find so many varieties, but most importantly, the convenience factor. Everything gets delivered to your doorsteps one or two days later. You cannot beat that.

Alicia: No, I think you raise a great point because there's always that line between, okay, what is a behavior that we're applying just because we have to, we don't have a choice to a behavior that is learned and adopted long term because of the ease. So would you say it was just like that ease component that really got people coming back after that pandemic era boom or like what what really drove people to the business over and over again once they had that first taste, so to speak?

Denys: That's exactly. And you just said it. It's a first taste sometimes, but that's exactly the thing. People are reluctant, I mean, naturally reluctant to change when they think it's a change. They don't like that. But when they have to try it for the first time, once they try this something new and realize that it's actually, that's the way to go, they tend to stay. They tend to try it again and again and again.

Alicia: So there are a few benefits at play, obviously. So it's the ease and convenience. It's, the innate, um, ability to just shop, transact quickly, but it's also the quality and depth of product. Um, so you're getting all of these customers coming in, they're staying with you. Um, take us on that growth journey so to speak. Like, were there any notable challenges you were facing as you, um, saw that uptick in interest and acquisition? Like, for instance, the first thing that comes to my mind is the logistics side, right? Because, you know, managing shipping those, you know, frozen meats and doing so in a timely and safe fashion, could imagine is is very complex. So was that a tipping point? Like what were the other drivers, um, you know, as you were kind of venturing on that next stage of the business's growth?

Denys: You're absolutely correct. You hit it straight on the head. The logistic part of the e commerce perishable food company is the main challenge. Getting the right products, keeping frozen, you know, that's one thing. Making sure that this product reaches someone in Texas or Arizona in the July. And they're keeping that customer happy discovering that it's exactly what the customer was expecting, fully frozen. It's a different thing. So yes, it's time consuming. It requires a very, very rigorous process of keeping the product safe. It's expensive because obviously you have to ship everything the next day or the second day during the winter. Once you follow certain procedures established already or you just learned how to do that the right way, It's become sort of a habit. So now every one of the people on the packaging floor, they know all the 50 states and the zip codes. It sounds terrible. It's not. It just takes time for you to learn. So they know exactly how much coolant goes into this box with that product waiting set much and going into this state by this shipping method. Those things sounds complicated and to the extent they are the first month or two. But after that, you do it with your eyes closed.

Phillip: You've got the complicated sort of supply chain down. You have the customer apprehension for adoption sort of down. Uh, you know, that's all it's gonna be an ongoing challenge, but, you know, you're you're overcoming, you know, that, uh, apprehension in a new channel. Um, I'm I'm curious, you know, how did you come upon Temu? Because I know that you've you're in other channels. Right? So that Temu is a pretty nascent channel for you. You've had success in all of these other channels, and you're sort of shaping this new consumer behavior, um, as part of this new set of brands just like you from 2020 onward, creating this new category. But you're brand new in shaping this category on TemuS. So how did they first come onto your radar and what made you decide to take that leap together with them?

Denys: Since it was in June, we literally joined Temu, what, not even six months ago. I remember reading a newspaper, I think it was Wall Street Journal, something maybe, that Temu was the third largest eCommerce marketplace in the world and expanding in The United States. And it's just basically I pulled out my phone, send myself an email reminder, reach out to Temu. Just like that. We did it. We reached out. We tried and through the whole process began. Pretty soon we were connected. That's the essential part. Just get someone that you can basically communicate with internal on the other side and they'll help you. And that's that's the story. That's the way I recommend. Just reach out if you're thinking about joining Temu, which I highly recommend for many, many different reasons. It's not complicated anymore. We basically spearheaded that. It was a learning process for Temu of what kind of, uh, what kind of documents they what the requirements they would need for perishable category. This everything is ironed out now.

Phillip: There's often a saying. It's like an old saying is it's it's not the first man over the log that gets bit. It's the third man over. I don't know if anyone's ever heard that. And that's, the first man, you know, wakes up the snake. The second man puts it on alert. Right? Um, and I think that now that there's an entire established category, right, of, uh, folks that are operational now on on Temu, You were the first among the frozen, you know, uh, and sort of perishable, uh, category on Temu. It's a fully fledged category, um, now on Temu. Um, you have confidence. Um, uh, Do you believe that it's, you know, a set of the fact that there's lots of other players in the space, there's lots of other category sellers? Do you believe that it's, you know, a managerial process and a set of like rigor and processes on the Temu side? Like, what is it that gives you confidence that other brands would find success on that platform? I'm curious what your perspective would be.

Denys: In the word novelty and being first, even second, even third or even thirty third in the category that we currently one of the few, you can count yourself among the first ones. This category is still not crowded. It's still not that much, not comparing to other marketplaces, not that much competition. So, you know, I don't need to explain anyone, any person, any executive, the significance of being first in a new category in any marketplaces, any e commerce, any business. When you first and if there is a demand, then then it's it's an opportunity you cannot and you shouldn't miss. And we're talking about food here, guys, talking about food. So there is always there will always be a demand for food products on any marketplaces. That's it. As simple as that.

Alicia: Yeah. That's really interesting. So you said you've been on Temu for about six months now?

Denys: Six months. Yes.

Alicia: A few weeks in, I think it was about like five or so weeks, for your online sales, Temu was making up a pretty, pretty, uh, reasonable chunk of that online revenue. Right. It was about like 12%. I'm, I'm curious, you know, what do you think drove that early success? Like you mentioned the novelty, right? Like, I'm sure there were some people that were like, oh, cool. Like, I wanna be able to buy stakes on Temu. Um, but I mean, for you as the founder and the person that's driving the business, were there any particular tools, um, features, even the onboarding process, right? Like what what kind of set the stage for your early success so you could reach such a seismic impact so early on in your journey?

Denys: Just like one or two months after starting on Temu, we realized we need to hire more people working on the assembly floor. So that's just basically explaining that right now you mentioned right now, I think we're getting close to double digits, fifteen, eighteen, maybe 20% of all our our sales are now coming. Well, yes, 19 to 20% now coming from Temu. We got a loyal customers. I was hesitating for a second to say, can you say a customer if someone is just buying from you for three, four months? But after those people, I just recently saw that just the other day, there was a person who bought to make like 25 purchases, different items, 25 different purchases, never single item. So I think, yes, we can I can say, yes, you can have loyal customers even in the span of five to six months? I'm still not 100% sure just because it's not even full calendar year cycle of being on Temu, I think one of the main factors for our success was a different segment of customers, different demographics. We don't have a data to basically to prove that, but it's a general feeling. There are more, the Temu audience tend to be younger. On other market, for example, on other marketplaces, 70 plus percent of our customers tend to be people 55. I cannot say exactly what the chunk of that on Temu, but it's we sure that the majority or close to majority percentage, majority of our customers on Temu, they're younger people.

Denys: We don't know the age, cannot tell you that it's 25 or 35, but I think it's somewhere in this area. They tend to other marketplaces, someone bought a particular product and they tend to stick to it. They keep buying and even when we encourage them to try something else, people tend to stick. They don't like to experiment. Uh-uh, not on Temu. Once you get a customer on Temu, on on average, they tend to relate relate to your brand start looking for your branded product much more often. And they tend to try different things. That's one of the reasons we think the audience tend to be younger. Younger people are more open to experiment with different things. And that's especially important for someone like us with many, many, many different SKUs of product, different products. That's very important. You don't want your customers buying just this one particular cut of steaks forever. They try different things. And that's how I guess this person I was just talking about making 25 something purchase over time. Each time it's a different one. The guy, the guy is still trying to find something or he just likes trying different things.

Alicia: That's great. I mean, so knowing that, I mean, a lot of exciting opportunity for your team, I'm sure. I mean, are you taking that insight and like what you're learning about this younger, um, demographic? Um, are you applying it in any way? Like you mentioned, they want to try different things. Like, are you testing like bundling or even just like your marketing or product listings? Or I mean, I know it's still early days. Are you at least, you know, applying and digesting that insight and figuring out, okay, well, how can we do more with this knowing what we know now about the Temu customer?

Denys: We would be would have been a bad business if we weren't trying to. Of course. Of course, we're doing that. Uh, you have to know your customers. Obviously, you have to know what they tend to like, what they tend to dislike. Yes, you're absolutely right. It's at this point, we're not making any final conclusions, but we have already tried and we have two products in the works that we are developing just for Temu based on all the information we gathered so far. We started them yesterday and those were developed based on the data that we accumulated during these five, six months and trying to figure out what would a Temu customer, what would they like? And we just very, very curious. Obviously, if we get it right, great. If we get it wrong, also great. There is no bet here because if we didn't get it right, we'll have to learn some more. We'll have to look into the data closely. We'll keep experimenting. That's a good thing about us. It's we young company relatively. So we like to experiment too.

Phillip: Yeah. There's a I'm just, you know, looking myself while we're speaking at, uh, some of those, um, listings and offerings. You know, you're talking about, using some of that data to, you know, make these data informed decisions. That's something that, you know, most of our listeners, uh, I think, have based, you know, the entirety of their ecommerce journey around. Um, I'm curious what is differentiating around Temu's experience that you, you know, maybe you could give some insight to based on your experience with other platforms or other marketplaces. Um, you know, there's this real time data. These insights for product development, think is really an interesting one. But is there a specific example of, you know, a seller dashboard feature or something that's different or or or novel that you can probably draw a contrast with?

Denys: Very big contrast. If we're not sure and we tend to not to abuse that, we are real realize how busy people on the other sides are, but the best feature of that dashboard, so to speak, is an ability to email pretty senior people on Temu asking them for input. Uh, you don't get it You don't get it anywhere else. That's just golden because those guys, sell first of all, they're nice. They genuinely nice. And second, they're responsive. They reply to your emails and they're trying to help and this is, that beats any seller dashboard, anything out there.

Phillip: Over the last few months, do you feel like you have a way of speaking into your approach in product development and how this real time data, this channel is becoming more and more of your sales and loyalty as a portion of your businesses, you know, growing sales and growing loyalty, then I think you do have to start thinking about, you know, the way that it impacts your inventory. Then, yeah, I think a real time dashboard of how that it's a differentiator amongst the other marketplaces that may not have real time information on how that inventory might need to be allocated or how you may be able to speak into where you're allocating that inventory amongst your supply chain. But I might be wrong. How does it stack up?

Denys: Right now, although our products tend to be some of them tend to be seasonal, it's difficult to answer your question right now. Once again, we haven't been a full cycle, calendar year cycle on Temu. We just got half. And consumer preferences buying products in July versus buying products in November are very different. Difficult for me to say with any degree of certainty how it's going to be. Everything on other marketplaces tend to change. I expect the same will be on Temu and we're noticing that. The good thing though, is I don't need to guesstimate on Temu because there is a direct communication with the customer in real time. It's a chat. You can choose to, you can choose the AI to handle that. And, but we not, disengaged AI, it's disengaged on our part. So whenever we consider it an opportunity, whenever a customer and sometimes it's a customer who doesn't like something, didn't like something, that's probably the best cost customer in the sense for you to find out, you know, know everything good about your product. What is, but any products, any products has some drawbacks, weaknesses, the instructions of how to prepare, how to heat it up, not sufficiently clear. And that's where you need those customers. Now, what I'm trying to say here is logistically, technically, it's very difficult to do when it's an email exchange on other marketplaces. You send, uh, it's not the real time. There is always ten, fifteen minutes lag. So basically it's an email exchange. And so try to find out, uh, what exactly was wrong with the cooking instructions when it's, uh, ten, fifteen minutes delayed in the response, in your response and the response from the customer. In Temu with real time, it's basically chatting and you get exactly where you need to.

Denys: You get the information very fast, exactly the information you need to make changes, to realize here's the area improvement, many things like that. So from the consumer perspective, and this is good for the customer, this is good for the business. We tend to develop rapport and visit customer by communicating with them. We have a person someone dedicated to that, the chat specialist 247. And I also highly recommend to anyone who's joining Temu or to have someone once you get to sufficient volumes, obviously, to get someone fully dedicated to that. The information we're getting from this, we started getting, it's one or two months, is we already made certain adjustment and changes to certain of our products when we realize it's not one, two, three instances. Yes, sometimes you don't see forest for the trees. Sometimes you've got so laser focused on your product, you know it inside out. A fresh perspective from some so are your employees, a fresh perspective from someone is something very, very, very important for you. And the consumer on the other side, the most important person essentially is a consumer on the other side because they are the ones, they don't know anything about the product. And your job is to let them know and how to do that. You don't want to do it every time through the chat. So that's the best customer as far as improving on your products. New products, I'm waiting for someone for this recently launched two new products waiting for the first customer to reach out to us with any comments. And once we get to certain amount of those comments, we can adjust the product. We don't have much of that kind of traction on the other marketplaces. So that's the Temu differentiator.

Alicia: Yeah. Wow. That's fascinating. It seems like it's not only allowing you to reach a new demographic and more consumers within that demographic, but it's bridging that gap that so many brands struggle with as they try to grow, right? And that's getting all of that insight and intelligence they need to understand like what's resonating, what is that objective view of our brand when it shows up on a marketplace like Temu. So I wanna ask because you're still relatively early in this journey, granted have seen a lot of success, are already applying a lot of learnings, but what does the next six months or even year from now look like for you as you continue to embrace this insights engine, so to speak? Like, are you planning to expand your team more? Are you planning to, like you mentioned product, obviously that's a big part of it. Like what is that, um, North Star, I guess you could say look like for you?

Denys: Uh, we are and we've been expanding since day one on Temu, expanding our team, our, uh, not only on the assembly floor, but the analytical that someone we just recently had to add someone on a team with chat, customer consumer response team. What I really hope for is that the information will we started getting from having this direct connect, direct line to the customer in real time that we will learn. Once again, we just created first two new products that were at least partially based on the comments we received from Temu of customers about other other heat and eat meals, ready to eat meals. Based on those comments we received, we created those first two new products. We did have that experience or any other marketplaces. Actually, launching this line of heat and eat meals, we were We didn't do the whole study, but we ordered a complicated survey, several thousand people there, you can order those, you can pay for them. They look quite expensive. And that what gets me so excited because next time we don't learn the demographics and their preferences, we won't need to order a comprehensive and expensive study of the consumer preferences. We can basically get much clearer picture just communicating with the customer. That would be in a sense for us, the North Star you mentioned, because it's not a study group, it's not even the most sophisticated company that works in this field coming up this a suggestion for you. You get those inputs directly from a consumer telling you, would like to have this in your product. I would like to have that kind of product. Once you gather enough of those matching information, matching points of reference, then you can create something new. This would be really, really good if we figure it out.

Phillip: Wow. Uh, there's so much more that we really could cover. I think what we need to do is, uh, do a check-in with you in the future and see how things are going. Um, that I think is probably the the greatest way to, you know, sort of check-in on, uh, the progress. But congrats on all of the success so far, uh, Denys. We're, uh, you know, excited to see how this series is shaping up, excited for, uh, other brands to figure out, you know, what their strategies for 2026 are looking like and, uh, specifically when they're evaluating, you know, where they should be making investments. And if they should be looking at a partner like Temu, I think that's the question for this series. It's a pleasure to have you on Step by Step. Thank you so much.

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