[00:00:00] Brian: Hello and welcome to Future Commerce, the podcast at the intersection of Culture and Commerce. I'm Brian,

[00:00:05] Alicia: And I'm Alicia.

[00:00:06] Brian: and we are here to talk about one of my favorite shows of the past 10 years, Shoptalk, and we have the perfect person to do it. So today joining us, Zia Daniell Wigder, who is the global president of Shoptalk and of Groceryshop. Welcome. Zia.

[00:00:30] Zia: Thank you so much for having me.

[00:00:32] Brian: Yeah, we're excited, we're excited. I, I mean, when I say my favorite show, I mean, I, I, I really have to say that because I've actually been to every single Shoptalk Spring in Vegas since your 10-year anniversary. is impressive. every year.

[00:00:49] Zia: That is impressive.

[00:00:50] Brian: I know, and I, I, I hope to never break my streak because it is a fantastic show. Congratulations on 10 years. And I think, you know, when you look back at this past decade, Zia, which you've sort of, kind of flown in and out of over the years, so what are, what are some of the biggest takeaways that you have of these, these, these past 10 years?

[00:01:15] Zia: Yeah, no, it's been sort of fascinating seeing the evolution of retail. Over these past 10 years. When we did our first show back in 2016, it was actually in May of 2016, we were at the ARIA also in Vegas. And that year there was a whole lot of conversation, right, about the startups working together with the traditional retailers and brands.

That was one of the big themes and... We came on the scene Shoptalk in kind of the early days of that. So it was before Walmart acquired Jet.com, before Unilever acquired Dollar Shave Club. Those were two speakers that we had on stage. And so as I said, during those early years, the fact that we had in kind of equal numbers, the startup and venture capital community alongside the traditional brands and retailers was a.

A big differentiator for us because there were shows that kind of catered to both of those different audiences, but not both at the same time. And you know, it's been fascinating to see kind of that evolution, right? So we went through that phase with the DN vbs, the digitally native vertical brands. Um. We have entered this more recent phase where AI is the talk of the town and what everyone wants to discuss.

So we've seen a whole lot of things, happen over the course of these 10 years, and I think retail overall has shifted and with It Shoptalk has shifted to become, you know, a more sophisticated event than we were in the early days, and one that reflects what we've been seeing in the industry.

[00:02:45] Brian: Yeah, DNVB is, maybe, maybe the

[00:02:49] Alicia: That was a time.

[00:02:49] Brian: Is. A, Yep. AI-VBs – or NVBs. it seems like there is a huge opportunity and, and you're right, the show has evolved a ton. I mean, that, I remember that first year, there was literal street signs on like the aisles that people could walk down. And, it was, it was such an interesting moment in, in the history of, of retail and brand because.

It was, it was the moment the venture capital really took a, a big interest in the space and they saw application for technology in, in a new way that could provide some explosive growth. And we saw some really big brands sort of rise out of that era, like the Warby Parker. is a great example of, of a brand that I, I, you know, I would've expected to see at that first Shoptalk that that kind of almost felt like their, their breeding ground, if you will.

[00:03:49] Zia: no, it was exciting to have those types of players in the early days, and people would just gobble up everything that was set on stage because they hadn't really been introduced to these types of companies before. So we gave them a platform in front of a very large audience that they hadn't had before, at least when it came to those traditional brands and retailers.

[00:04:10] Brian: Yeah, I totally agree. And, it feels like we're kind of at that inflection point again here, where there's a whole new wave of technology with application in retail and brand and in. That, that sort of wave, that is sort of the, the theme for this year. So I mean, for, for someone walking into Shoptalk spring for the first time, in, in 2026, what are maybe, well, what are the big themes for the year and what, what, what kind of experience we think people will see walking into the show.

[00:04:42] Zia: So 2026, our 10 year anniversary is the first time that we've actually tied the theme of the event into an industry trend.

And that is, of course, ai, right? It's been the biggest transformative trend we've seen in a long time in this space. But we're trying to be very careful about not saying the entire event is gonna be about ai, but rather AI is the backdrop to everything happening in retail. So retail in the age of AI means that in-person human connections are even more important today than they have been in the past.

Because we have all of this operational efficiency, all of this streamlining and optimization happening in the background in some cases, taking away some of the interactions we might've had before. And so we very much wanna make sure we're talking about that whole piece of retail. Is not necessarily AI enabled, but that is, as I said, increasing in importance given everything happening on the technology side.

[00:05:44] Alicia: Yeah, and I honestly, I think your team has always done an incredible job of balancing those two worlds, the art and the science, so to speak, because, even folks that are maybe in a tech led or or marketing tech led role, there is still an art to their work. Um. But what I always love about Shoptalk is that you guys managed to really curate a nice mix of emerging brands, established brands and retailers, but then also the tech side as well, like the platform side.

this year I know there's Pinterest, meta Snap, the Reddit, which I think is. So smart because I, I honestly think Meta is very overlooked. So my question for you is how, how do you strike that balance and ensure the curation is up to par? That you get the practitioner and operator side, but then you also get the, the tech side just right.

[00:06:45] Zia: Yeah, and I think our content team has done a phenomenal job of kind of bridging that divide. And I think you put it just right. It's a combination of art and science. So the way that they work is they look across everything happening in retail. And one of the things I love about Shoptalk that I think is still very unique is that the team puts together the entire agenda they put together.

All the topics that they wanna cover. We've done this since day one. Then they go out and they find the speakers for those specific topics. And that's much harder to do than kind of a traditional conference that accepts inbound speaker application. So you might have some topic that someone pitched on loyalty, and then you might have another one on the in-store experience that also has a completely different take on it.

And then you might be missing kind of key areas of retail because no one pitched that particular topic to you. And the way our team works, as I said, is they'll decide on if they wanna do the in-store experience, they'll say, okay, who are the retailers that are doing a really great job of this?

Who do we want on this session? Then they'll reach out to those particular retailers, and typically this is a combination of kind of earlier stage or startup brands along with more traditional ones, and they'll say, okay. These are the companies that we should have represented for our audience to really learn about the in-store experience.

So I think they've done a great job of, bringing in the most innovative companies and then, you know, applying some of that art and science right to the agenda. So who is doing the absolute best job in AI. Who are the platforms that are redefining how consumers are discovering.

How organizations are shifting and we'll bring those in. But then we'll also bring in who are kind of the buzzy brands that people are talking about that really have that, you know, emotional connection to consumers.

[00:08:36] Brian: You know what's really interesting about your role is that, you know, when someone goes to the show, they get to see all these incredible leaders, in different tracks and in different places throughout the show. But you have the unique view of like. Kind of getting to see the whole picture bigger, and sort of more expansive than everyone else.

And, and you talk about, you know, who you're bringing in and looking out there and identifying like the right brands to kind of hit on those topics. And I, I, you know, I can't help but think of, the quote, we shape our tools and thereafter they shape us. you know, if we think about brands like people.

and you think about kind of we, the, the opening of the conversation like an ai, you know, v and b, like there's, there's a lot of talk about AI and, and that's why it's the theme of this year. when you think about how brands are actively being shaped by ai, it feels like that's a great way. To like cut through the hype and just focus on like how, how the tools are actually impacting our society.

And brands actually might kind of be the, like one of the leading indicators of how we will be shaped as, as a, as broader people. so how do you kind of see, like when you get this broader view, like what are some of the things that could be considered secondary effects, maybe that. Are actually like primary reorganization and re like retooling of how a brand exists.

[00:10:19] Zia: Yeah, I think we are still at the very early days of that. I think we have barely scratched the surface when it comes to the real impact that this is going to have. So. It's kind of two big buckets, right? So you've got all of the kind of internal process optimization that AI enables, and that requires every team across the organization to have the skillset needed to be able to do that.

You generally need to have someone there who can. Teach different teams how to use it. They then need to identify the, the use cases. That's not easy to do, so that's gonna take some period of time. Then you've got all of the kind of external developments, right? That's, when you get into the GEO and the, you know, AI optimized search results, and you mentioned the CEO of Reddit, for example, you know, Reddit now playing an outsized role in search results.

We didn't think necessarily a few years back that they would be the ones who were. Gonna be kind of taste makers and playing that, role today. And so the brands at the same time that they're trying to figure out how to streamline their operations or trying to adapt to this whole new reality. And I think we've now seen.

You know, a huge amount of debate, you know, is AG agentic AI going to reshape retailer or is it not? We actually have a, a session specifically on that topic, a debate on stage happening between, Scott Wino and Andrew Lipman and Etta Chopra from Elf Beauty, talking about that exact topic because you've got the huge champions that say yes.

This is going to change everything about the world of product discovery as we know it. And then you've got the other side saying, this is way over hype. This will have an impact, but this is not the revolutionary change that you are being promised. So I think, you know, at Shoptalk you're gonna see bulls and bears when it comes to this area.

The truth is almost always somewhere in between those two. But I'm excited to hear kind of, you know, the arguments that those three different experts. Present and why they feel we're going one direction or the other.

[00:12:23] Brian: He was taking the middle ground there

[00:12:26] Alicia: Yeah.

[00:12:27] Brian: of the three.

[00:12:28] Alicia: Well, and I think it's good because you and the team are creating a forum for those discussions to happen. I think. With any industry. I mean, retail is, is not exempt from this. We all have a tendency to fall into our own little echo chambers of people who agree with us. So the fact that you are not just creating a space but are allocating a specific point in the agenda for these debates to happen is really smart.

So I, I'm curious to see what the audience makeup will be too. Like if it's gonna be like pro con or folks somewhere in the middle, but, um. To dig a little bit further into this point of ai, obviously there has been a lot of traction in areas such as marketing, personalization, digital commerce. I know we have been covering it quite a bit, but are there any emerging areas that your agenda's hitting on this year, areas where, you know, you and your team noticed little glimmers of innovation or, or progress that you really wanted to make sure.

You hit on this year? I mean like in store product design, like what's really emerging that you're excited to bring Front and center for attendees.

[00:13:38] Zia: Yeah, and I'm not gonna dodge the question I promise. but I'm gonna answer with a few different things. 'cause I think that's what kind of makes Shoptalk unique is it's not like there is just one component of retail that we have kind of uniquely identified, but rather there's. So much is happening and we bring in a piece of all of those different things.

So everyone's talking about ai, right? We've already kind of touched on that. Retail media continues to be a huge area. You hear broadly about the, you know, the commerce media expansion, but it doesn't maybe come up as frequently as AI in conversations these days.

But it's critical to continue to cover that topic because it still remains, you know, the fastest. Part of digital advertising on a global basis. So that continues to grow other things like the creator economy, right? Having a huge impact in terms of, how consumers are discovering brands. But at most retail events, you don't go in-depth into that area.

And we're even doing things like we're actually doing workshops for the first time. So we added some professional development content to the agenda, which I'm really excited about. So we have a session with VaynerMedia talking about how do you build your own professional brand on social platforms. We have a session on video storytelling.

That will allow you to, craft a better narrative for your brand. So I think a combination of all of these different things kind of brings together the developments that are happening across retail with some tactical takeaways that you'll be able to leave with and put to work as soon as you get back to the office.

[00:15:17] Brian: New stuff to enjoy at the...

[00:15:20] Alicia: New formats.

[00:15:21] Zia: Yeah.

[00:15:22] Brian: Actually, so since we're talking about it, were you able to use AI in the process of planning the show this year? is that, was that, I mean, are we talking about how brands and resellers can use the tools that feels like there's an opportunity here for you as well? How did, how did that go?

[00:15:42] Zia: Yeah, I think, you know, kind of across the company we use it in a way, you know, a number of organizations use it. So, you know, we have to write. On the content side, lots of descriptions and you know, I think the way we use it is like everyone, it can give you a good first draft of some things and then you take that and you retain some component of it.

Even when we write up all of the speaker bios, it can be very helpful there, you know. We definitely are using it at a high level every team to kind of optimize what we're doing and finding different use cases.

[00:16:18] Brian: Yeah, it makes sense. And, and I think that a lot of brands would probably say it's similar things, like, they're not necessarily using it to do what AI, I think has the potential to do. And this is sort of a, a remains the question in my mind, but like. We've been using it in very like point solution type ways where it's like, oh, well we need to, you know, create product copy. We need to create speaker bios. We need to, you know, do these like very like, sort of simple, like I'm gonna use it in my workflow. But what I, I'm excited here to show, and I, and I, and I'm sure we're gonna get some perspective on this, is what happens when you're able to give AI more. Context. And I think, this is the thing that everyone's sort of experimenting right now with like, cloud Cowork and, and some of these other tools where it's like, okay, I'm gonna hand over my data to, to AI and like it's gonna have context on two disparate systems.

That is really, it's, in the past it's been impossible to sort of get a software program to actually have context on two fully different systems and give me stats and data and recommendations and, and like a path forward to actually leverage, our, you know, data lakes. 'cause we've had data from these systems available to us.

We've just, it's been very difficult without a team of analysts. Um. To be able to actually go leverage that and do something with it. So have you seen like in, in the agenda, like where, where are some points do you think, where that, beyond just using it in our daily workflows, we're gonna start to see some of that larger context take, take

[00:17:58] Zia: Yeah, there's one session that I'm excited about that is sort of a rapid fire discussion of use cases for AI that has a couple different CTOs. where they're just gonna talk through some of these different use cases and where it's actually working, where it's not perhaps having the impact that they might have thought.

But that's one where I think you're gonna, you know, be able to take away some of these learnings. And then some of the others we talked about, right? We've got track keynotes, for example, from the CTO of Gap, from CTO of Pinterest, where they're gonna talk about what they're seeing as well, so. You're hearing from kind of a combination of those who are using it very tactically, and then also those who are at a high level kind of overseeing the transformation of their organizations with ai?

[00:18:46] Brian: Yeah, and I think that's, that's super, super interesting because let's get back to something you talked about earlier. Humans are still very much in the loop as we use ai. It feels like right now there's not just machines running. You know, there was like all just automated and everything just happens. it's, there's still a, a review and edit process.

There's still a, you know, yes, I approve process. and I think that, there's, there's sort of debate about this, you know, in the world, which is like, is AI pushing us to be. Faster, better, smarter, and like as people, or is it replacing and taking over jobs? Right. And I, I, I think that I, I expect some narratives to, to emerge around this conversation, in some of these sessions that we see.

[00:19:39] Zia: Yeah, and again, you've got the different camps in it, right? You've got those who say, you know, look at Excel. And when Excel was first launched, everyone thought that it would completely disrupt every quantitative role because you wouldn't need those roles anymore when everything could be done through a spread.

And of course it didn't. You had lots of people who learned how to use it. So you've got that camp that says, okay, we're, you know, kind of seeing the same thing with AI right now in that it'll become a tool that people will be able to use. Then you've got the other one, right, who says, you know, particularly entry level jobs or toast, right?

We're not gonna see, see those to the same degree we have before. Certainly, you're seeing a lot of companies talking about the fact that they're gonna be doing layoffs as a result of AI. How much of that is AI as an excuse for doing layoffs, having overhired in the past subject of debate? But again, it, it'll probably be somewhere in the middle between those two, I think.

Longer term, there's certainly a lot of opportunity for disruption, but I think there's also a lot of opportunity for those who, you know, learn to use it effectively. And I think anyone who's saying this is not gonna have an impact on my daily job and I'm not going to use it, is probably not going down the right path.

[00:20:55] Brian: Yeah.

[00:20:56] Zia: We'll see. We shall see.

[00:20:57] Alicia: Yeah. Having opportunities like the workshops that hit on areas that are so distinctly human taste-led, creativity-led, like those are creating opportunities for that. Human advantage, so to speak, to really shine through while also creating opportunities for people to empower themselves and be able to use AI more effectively in their work.

[00:21:22] Zia: Yep.

[00:21:23] Alicia: in a, in a way you're kind of hitting on like the, the crux of the, the pain points, right? That we're hearing so much about, which is, you know, how can we use ai? What does the workflow look like? How do I maintain my advantage? But have there been any other like. Challenges, pain points at, at the brand and retailer level that your team knew, oh, we need to hit on X items or this checklist of things because we've heard from our, our audience and, you know, our, our loyal attendees, that these are things that are really top of mind for them.

Anything else we should be looking out for?

[00:22:00] Zia: Yeah, I think, you know, I've talked about some of them, right? And we've gone through sort of the AI debate here and that was very much in response to what our audience was looking to learn more about. But then, you know, there's still other issues, right? For example, social commerce, remains a topic that people are also divided on.

There are some that think it's, you know. Simply never going to take off. It's the old, oh, the US is not China, so it could never happen here. I tend to be a bull rather than a bear on social commerce. I think. Yes, very obviously the US is not China. We all know that. e-commerce overall in China grew up in a way that's very different than.

Anywhere else in the world for a whole variety of different reasons. But that doesn't mean that inspiration and transaction are going to remain completely separate forever. So I do think there's an opportunity for it. TikTok shop is again, a great example of how it can work here, and I think we've barely scratched the surface of that issue.

And I think brands aren't necessarily. Asking about that per se, but it almost feels like they should be right. They should be continuing to explore in this area. And again, not simply writing it off at any juncture, simply because the latest iteration by some player hasn't worked. Yep.

[00:23:19] Brian: I think that's really smart. Yeah. Commerce is culture.

[00:23:23] Alicia: Mm-hmm.

[00:23:24] Zia: Yeah.

[00:23:24] Brian: and so yeah, inspiration is a huge part of that. And I think, I think you're right about social commerce continuing to fuel how we think about brands and actually even. fuel how brands are shaped, into the future. there's still a lot of, a lot of opportunity there.

[00:23:44] Zia: There is a ton of opportunity. Yeah. And as I mentioned, we've got, sessions on the creator economy, which I think is going to only play a greater role in, you know, how consumers are discovering products. And it's one that. Everything that I hear about from brands is that they're still, again, kind of trying to figure out that model.

And when you talk to the content creators, they're still having these, you know, briefs kind of, you know, shoved at them and told what they should be doing as opposed to brands working with them in a more collaborative way that is going to ensure that the end result is much more authentic. So that's one that I think is still kind of in the early days.

[00:24:24] Brian: Yeah, I completely agree. The, we saw sort of some backlash that with like the de influencing movement. but I think that was actually just early warning signs in some of this. Like, what does it mean to really engage authentically, with, with, somebody who, who has their own opinions and is trustworthy?

and what happens when they start. Just, just doing whatever a brand tells them to do, will they start to erode that trust? And so, I think that the, that, how do you get your messages out without eroding the trust of the creator? And like, where does the creator like take a firm stand versus not take a firm stand?

This has been a big challenge of the last 10 years of–

[00:25:11] Zia: Yes. It's not a new one.

[00:25:13] Brian: No.

[00:25:14] Zia: Yeah.

[00:25:14] Brian: Maybe, maybe of the last like hundred years of advertising. but yeah, I, speaking of, of the last, you know, well, 10 years, we know, I, I, I, it's my opinion whether or not. You know, AI replaces jobs or just forces us to get better. I think whoever's gonna be engaged with technology is gonna be pushing their minds further and further and harder and harder, because they have to, they have to be able to be good at lots of things when you have this sort of power at your fingertips.

And, and one of my favorite, authors, Norbert Wiener, who's considered the father of cybernetics, said that, that we know we're entering a, a fourth. industrial revolutionary revolution of the mind. Right? And so, his viewpoint was that it, you know. It wasn't that just, you know, people are gonna sit around all day.

People's minds want to keep going and they want to use the tools that are available to them. And so actually, if anything, AI is going to just push, push our minds harder and harder. Some people maybe will just sit back and enjoy the ride. But for those of us that continue to really, you know, wanna do something, we're gonna have to, we're gonna have to push ourselves.

And so when you think about, you know, the next 10 years of Shoptalk.

[00:26:36] Zia: Yep.

[00:26:36] Brian: I know we, we talked about AI this whole time and in the next 12 months of, of, you know, this coming year and what that's gonna look like. Do you have a viewpoint of like, how, how some of these conversations are gonna start to evolve?

Looking, I, I, 10 years is probably too far, but like in the next few years, how is it gonna start to.

[00:26:57] Zia: Yeah, I think you're gonna see even more sort of collaborative. Content on the agenda. I mentioned that we're starting with some of the workshops. We actually pioneered this at Groceryshop last year, and we've added two additional tracks this year that are getting more hands-on as we go into Shoptalk fall.

We're gonna be experimenting with a few things there again, more. Interactive sessions, for example, with some of the speakers. And one thing that we just hear repeatedly from our audience is that they wanna have a chance to interact with the others who are there, who are like-minded, who can help provide them with insights that will drive their business.

So we have had the hosted program for a long time. The, you know, the buyers and the sellers that come together through that program. We've had meetup table talks is one that has only grown substantially in, um. Popularity when I was at, the fall show in Chicago, shortly before you and I caught up, Brian, I had just run into someone from one of the brands there who said, I, I love your content, but.

To be honest, I come exclusively for table talks. It is such a rare opportunity for me to be at a table with, you know, seven other people that are grappling with the same issues I am, and that can help provide me with that guidance. I think there's a lot more that we can be doing there to make sure that people are meeting the others and that they're being, you know, given the opportunity to learn.

On stage as well as from their peers. So really leaning into that learning component is one that we wanna do even more of. And one thing I haven't mentioned is, is part of kind of this whole community building from a very, very tactical Shoptalk perspective. We've got all the track sessions on the main show floor this year.

We've got the speaker lounge there, we've got the media lounge there. We're trying to create this whole kind of community that lives in the same space every day of the show. So again, we drive those interactions that maybe weren't as fluid when we were, you know, separated on a couple different floors and required people to travel long distances to get from one component of the event to another.

[00:29:11] Brian: I love that. Yeah, I think that those, those long distances. Are how I got my steps in And, made sure that I didn't just like gain 20 pounds on these trips because you guys feed us so well. And then there's always so many things going on around the event as well. It's just like food and alcohol, I gotta burn it off. it's been great though. Yeah.

[00:29:35] Zia: over lunch to make a round at the Mandalay Bay.

[00:29:38] Brian: Oh yeah. Oh, oh, I will, I'm gonna be all over. I'm sure you will too. well, Zia, what, what's, what's the thing we didn't ask? What's the one thing that you want the, the audience to hear about this coming show that we, that, that we didn't get to?

[00:29:56] Zia: Yeah, I think, one thing that I wanted to touch on is just this whole connected commerce area, right? That is part of the portfolio that I oversee at Hive. So Shoptalk itself, it's now five different. Events, right? We have got, Shoptalk Spring and Shoptalk Fall. We have Shoptalk Europe. We now have Shoptalk Luxe and we have Groceryshop.

So there are all sorts of different ways that you can learn at those five different shows. But now, as part of this connected commerce suite of events, hive has also acquired possible, so on the marketing front in Miami, in April, every year. You've got a community of marketers coming together there. And then at Manifest, which happened in Vegas in February, you've got the whole supply chain and logistics space coming together.

So if you think of kind of a Venn diagram and you've got Shoptalk, the big circle in the middle of retail where we cover kind of everything related to retail, we covered that little sliver of marketing again with kind of that heavy commerce media focus and then that little sliver of supply chain and logistics as well.

Now we have these other two events where those who are part of the Shoptalk community who wanna do a deeper dive, could find their people, whether it be in Miami, at Possible, or in Vegas at Manifest.

[00:31:19] Brian: What a great point. so Future Commerce just attended Manifest for the first time this year. Blown away.

[00:31:27] Zia: Yeah, they do a fantastic

[00:31:29] Brian: How do you get three trucks into the Venetian? I mean, that was just wild and

[00:31:34] Zia: They get the fun stuff.

[00:31:36] Brian: Yeah, it is a, a wild expo floor, I will say that. and then, Possible, Phillip has been, I think we'll be there as well this year, gonna be media partners.

and so excited to, it will be my first time. and so really excited about, both of those shows sort of being folded into this. Larger picture, like from, you know, shipping and logistics through selling in commerce, through, you know, marketing And, wild, wild other things that what's possible.

So, that's––what, what an exciting way to kind of bring together the full picture of what it means to be a brand in this era. Thank you so much Zia for...

[00:32:22] Alicia: This is great and we're so excited.

[00:32:23] Zia: Brian. Thank you, Alicia. This was fantastic. I really appreciate it, and I'm so excited that you're gonna be joining us with the show this year.

[00:32:31] Brian: Yeah, thanks. See you there.

[00:32:33] Zia: All right, see you soon.

‍