Phillip and Brian sit down with Carlos Gutierrez, former U.S. Secretary of Commerce and former chairman and CEO of Kellogg, ahead of the release of his memoir, Sheer Will. Carlos explains how the Commerce Department became one of the most powerful seats in Washington, why America should out-innovate China in the AI race, and why he thinks Americans are reluctant capitalists.

An America of Reluctant Capitalists

Key takeaways:

• With USTR now reporting to Commerce, the department holds more economic power than ever.
• Judging Mexico by the trade deficit misreads its value as a production partner.
• To win the AI race, America should out-innovate China rather than rely on sanctions.
• AI can't motivate people. Judgment and intuition will matter more for leaders.
• Global brands stay competitive when local teams share ownership of the P&L.
• "The Commerce secretary will be as powerful as the president wants him or her to be." — Carlos Gutierrez
• "I think that our [AI] strategy needs to be to out-innovate China." — Carlos Gutierrez
• "We are reluctant capitalists. We're reluctant to go too far. We're reluctant to embrace these trillion-dollar companies." — Carlos Gutierrez
• "I wanted 40, 50 people to go to sleep worrying about the P&L, not just me." — Carlos Gutierrez

In-Show Mentions:

• Sheer Will: Learning to Lead When There Is No Path by Carlos Gutierrez (St. Martin's Press), available October 6

Associated Links:

• Member Brief: The First 100 Days: Reshaping a Modern Commerce Department on the World Stage
• Member Brief: Consolation Prize
• Member Brief: The Power of the Modern Commerce Department: Every Fable Has a Moral
• The Senses: The Commerce Department Is a Hedge Fund Now
• Policy Brief: The Halo Effect of the New Economy
• Tabula Rasa: Commerce in the Great Geopolitical Game
• The Senses: 100 Days Later and We're Still Tariff-ied
• Member Brief: Costco and the New American Imperialism
• Episode 414: Kunle Campbell – Is Commerce in Conflict with Idealism?
• Episode 309: AI Should Empower Your Workforce, Not Replace Them
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